On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Mahomed Hussein <maho...@custodiandc.com> wrote:
> I was just mocking up some samples of my recommendation (which I think > possibly lines up with Vincent's points 2 and 3), when I realised that > there already exists the UI to edit the Page URL. It's just not called that > and I didn't remember seeing it. But I see that's probably what Caty was > referring to :-) > > I feel like I am just catching up to the conversation :-) > > So just to re-cap > > 1) You can currently edit the location, but this is only for advanced > users. (Maybe this can be a Wiki-wide setting instead of being tied to > advanced users, even if it can only be set in the config file - screenshot > https://snag.gy/vS4f3j.jpg). Personally I don't see why this needs to be > an advanced user only feature, because if a user can create a page and > decide what its parent page is, why can't they decide on the URL name? A > wiki-wide setting will allow the Admin to make this decision on an all or > nothing basis (rather than just the "nothing" option we have now). > > 2) The word "Name" and the description "Name of the new page" are not very > clear. (I have made a recommendation in this screenshot - > https://snag.gy/dlUK96.jpg) > > 3) I love the speakingurl suggestion and I hope you do implement it. I > think it will give the best of both worlds. It will generate nicer URLs. I > also agree with Vincent, many of the users *do* care about the URL. For > example, we share URLs in emails and chat etc. and cross reference in > documentation. This is one of the many uses where a nice URL is actually > useful. > > Slightly off-topic, it's nice to see you (the XWiki devs) actually taking > this seriously and discussing it here. It's very refreshing. So just wanted > to say thanks for that. > Off-topic: I'm quite thrilled with the number or replies and opinions on this thread. Maybe we should send / discuss more topics on the users list (we usually discuss the UI proposals/changes on the devs list). Thanks, Caty > > > Kind regards, > > > > > Mahomed Hussein > Custodian Data Centre > Email: maho...@custodiandc.com > http://www.CustodianDC.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: users [mailto:users-boun...@xwiki.org] On Behalf Of Vincent Massol > Sent: 21 April 2017 16:56 > To: XWiki Users <users@xwiki.org> > Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] display page title and name(url) while creating > a page > > Hi again, > > > On 21 Apr 2017, at 17:33, Miroslav Galajda <miroslav.gala...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > this seems to be quite complicated and not complete. > > This url-friendly problem does arise not only in page creation process > > but also in page renaming. > > > > The other thing is that custom applications that are creating pages > > would require to use different approax and will need to be customized > separately. > > The UIXP doesn't seems to solve the problem globally and I think > > currently this is not the main/core part of the problem. > > > > I would like if this was built-in and deeply integrated into xwiki and > > not to have it "only" optional. This is probably hard to quickly find > > the solution right now. > > As I said, the best solution would be built-in support such that it > > will transparently replace user-entered page name with URL-friendly name. > > Yes there are 2 aspects. The built-in part is easy by doing 1) and having > a default implementation that doesn’t do any transformation. Then an > extension can contribute a new component overriding the default one to use > a different algorithm. > > And this new API can be used in different places of XWiki (Create page, > rename page, AWM-generated entries, etc). > > That’s mostly what I meant by 1) below. > > But for me this is not enough we also need to show the generated URL in > the create page UI for example and that’s 2). > > Right now we don’t have an agreement from all xwiki devs that they’re ok > to go with showing the generated URL hence the UIXP idea. > > If everyone agrees then the problem goes away and it can be built in the > default UIs. There’s still the question of allowing the user to edit the > last part of the URL but let’s consider it as a detail FTM. > > > The proposed first point, to have component and a script service for > > converting strings to url-friendly strings, is the must have. This is > > what I strongly agree about. > > And it should provide some configuration in xwiki and it should take > > into account the language in which the page is being created. The > > speakingurl, aforementioned solution, works with language and provides > > quite a lot of customization. > > Yep. > > > Then this script service could be directly used in createinline.vm and > > other .vm files. Don't know about generally solving url-friendly thing > > in the custom applications. > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > Best regards > > Miroslav Galajda > > > > > > On 21 April 2017 at 16:45, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> wrote: > > > >> > >>> On 21 Apr 2017, at 16:19, Miroslav Galajda > >>> <miroslav.gala...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, the slugify is different component than speakingurl, but > >>> currently it doesn't matter on this. > >>> > >>> Ok, how would we solve this globally? Not only in default page > >>> creation process but also in custom applications, that create pages in > their own. > >>> For example the FAQ uses this code to redirect to new FAQ page after > >>> entering question name: > >>> #set ($newFAQReference = $services.model.createDocumentReference('', > >>> '', > >>> "$question")) > >>> $response.sendRedirect($xwiki.getURL($newFAQReference, 'inline', > >>> "$!{request.queryString}&title=${escapetool.url($question)}")) > >>> > >>> The solution you propose will be transparent for this code or will > >>> it require som modifications? > >> > >> My proposal is to do 2 things: > >> > >> 1) Introduce some new Component in XWiki Platform. I don’t know > >> where. It could be inside some existing modules in > >> https://github.com/xwiki/ > >> xwiki-platform/tree/master/xwiki-platform-core or introduce a new one > in there. > >> > >> So a Component + a Script Service so that it can be accessed from > >> wiki pages inside scripts (velocity, groovy, etc). > >> > >> This should cater for the need to be able to use it from anywhere. > >> > >> It’s basically a clean up/transformation of String into something > >> human-readable. > >> > >> 2) Introduce a UIXP inside createinline.vm to allow extenders to > >> contribute some sections in the Create UI. Actually the current > “Location” > >> section could even be refactored to be implemented using a UIX for > >> this UIXP. Several UIX could be contributed with an order and they’d > >> appear in the defined order. > >> > >> For more on UIXP, see http://extensions.xwiki.org/ > >> xwiki/bin/view/Extension/UIExtension%20Module and to see existing > >> ones see http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ExtensionPoint/ > >> > >> 3) You could then implement an optional UIX to introduce a new URL > >> section that would use 1) to display what URL would be used for > >> example. It could also let the user modify the last part of the URL. > >> > >> What I haven’t thought about yet is how this UIX will pass back the > >> document name to createinline.vm. Maybe these UIX would be allowed to > >> modify variables in the Velocity/Script context and that would be > enough. > >> > >> It probably needs to be brainstormed a bit more but this is the idea > >> I have so far. I’d also like to have @Caty’s POV on the UI > >> aspect/Layout of such a UIXP concept. > >> > >> WDYT Miroslav? > >> > >> Thanks > >> -Vincent > >> > >>> > >>> On 21 April 2017 at 16:00, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> On 21 Apr 2017, at 15:36, Miroslav Galajda > >>>>> <miroslav.gala...@gmail.com > >>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> the solution I've described is javascript based and runs on > >> client-side. > >>>>> From what I know, the component-based solution, which you propose, > >> would > >>>>> require to have url-friendly conversion component usable in java > >>>>> and > >> not > >>>> as > >>>>> javascript code. Am I right? > >>>> > >>>> Yes you’re right but: > >>>> > >>>> 1) There’s also a Java API, see https://github.com/slugify/slugify > >>>> 2) If we also offer a UIX then it can be implemented in a wiki page > >>>> for example and you can use JS. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> -Vincent > >>>> > >>>>> On 21 April 2017 at 15:28, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Miroslav, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 21 Apr 2017, at 15:05, Miroslav Galajda < > >> miroslav.gala...@gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi, let me enter into this conversion. > >>>>>>> Some time ago I've asked for help how to solve problem with > >> diacritics > >>>>>> (or > >>>>>>> accents) in page names when creating new pages so that the have > >>>>>>> url-friendly names. You can search for "strip accents from page > >>>>>>> name > >>>> used > >>>>>>> in url" in xwiki users mailing list. I've got no hint or > >>>>>>> solution > >> from > >>>>>>> xwiki community till today. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I've come with solution that ensures for simple users, creating > >>>>>>> url-friendly names without requiring them to think about the > >>>>>>> concept > >> of > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>> page name or page title. They simple enter the desired human > >>>>>>> readably > >>>>>> page > >>>>>>> name, and in the code behind of the page creation, I have made > >>>>>>> some modifications in createinline.vm to hook into page creation > process. > >>>> The > >>>>>>> modifications are mainly javascript based, where I've attache to > >> submit > >>>>>>> event of the "form#create", where I replace the entered "title" > >>>>>>> with > >>>> the > >>>>>>> one for url-friendly. And for url-friendly name I've used this > >>>> javascript > >>>>>>> based solution on https://pid.github.io/speakingurl/. > >>>>>>> I've integrated this principle also into page creation process > >>>>>>> of FAQ > >>>> and > >>>>>>> Blog applications, which we are using in our xwiki installation. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It would be nice if you could integrate this principle into > >>>>>>> xwiki so > >>>> that > >>>>>>> everyone can have nice url-friendly urls without worring about > >>>>>>> it. It > >>>> is > >>>>>>> also suitable for english speaking users. You don't have to > >>>>>>> worry > >> about > >>>>>>> entering spaces or other non-url allowed characters, which make > >>>>>>> url > >>>> look > >>>>>>> ugly. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That looks very nice! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> One way forward I could think about: > >>>>>> * We provide some Create script service to return a URL-friendly > >> string. > >>>>>> We introduce a component role for this. We refactor > >>>>>> createinline.vm to > >>>> use > >>>>>> it and to display the URL. > >>>>>> * You could then contribute your code as an extension that we > >>>>>> make available on extensions.xwiki.org for users to install > >>>>>> * We decide later on if we want to bundle it by default > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If we don’t agree about displaying the URL by default all the > >>>>>> time > >> then > >>>> an > >>>>>> option is to introduce a UIX in createinline.vm for that. And > >>>>>> this > >>>> could be > >>>>>> implemented in your extension too for example or by default in > >>>>>> XWiki (possibly with an Admin setting). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> WDYT? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> -Vincent > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Best regards > >>>>>>> Miroslav Galajda > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 21 April 2017 at 14:02, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> > >> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 21 Apr 2017, at 13:52, Marius Dumitru Florea < > >>>>>>>> mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Vincent Massol < > >> vinc...@massol.net> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi Caty, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 21 Apr 2017, at 12:44, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > >>>>>> vali...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Let's see what variants we have: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Instead of displaying "Title", display the "Name" instead. > >>>>>>>>>>> This won't solve anything. There is no difference between > >>>>>>>>>>> Page > >> Name > >>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> Page Title for the normal users. Seeing "Name" instead of > >> "Title", > >>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>> stop the users to enter spaces if they want, so the URL will > >> still > >>>>>> have > >>>>>>>>>>> those spaces. We don't force the Page Names to trim spaces. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> One quick solution here is indeed to use "URL" label instead > >>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>> "Name". > >>>>>>>>>> For > >>>>>>>>>>> the reasons Vincent mentioned this might not end up in the > >> product > >>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>> now, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> What did I mention? :) What’s preventing us from having it in > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> product > >>>>>>>>>> rather soon than later (except workload ofc)? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> so you will need to do some custom development (changing > >>>>>>>>>>> some > >>>>>>>>>> translations) > >>>>>>>>>>> to have this change. If you want to be "hackish" you can > >>>>>>>>>>> even > >>>> change > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> translation for "Title" to "URL" instead and hope that your > >>>>>>>>>>> users > >>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>>> enter shorter URLs (since we generate the name from the title). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Displaying just Name / URL, means users will still have to > >>>>>>>>>>> go and > >>>>>>>> change > >>>>>>>>>>> the title manually. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> This could be better (with URL name) since when you create a > >>>>>>>>>> page > >>>>>> you’re > >>>>>>>>>> offered the ability to change the title after you click Create. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> The only way to cut a step in the flow is to autogenerate > >>>>>>>>>>> the page names (which we currently do). But for your > >>>> use > >>>>>>>>>> case > >>>>>>>>>>> you shoyld write a shorting/trimming algorithm, but this is > >> custom, > >>>>>>>> since > >>>>>>>>>>> you mentioned you want just the initials and no spaces, etc. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Displaying both "Title" and "Name". This will create > >>>>>>>>>>> confusion > >>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> need > >>>>>>>>>>> for explanations. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> This is not exactly what is suggested either by Vishal nor by > >>>>>>>>>> me > >> :) > >>>>>> What > >>>>>>>>>> we suggested is to let the user enter the URL name and title. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Actually and to be more precise what I was suggesting was to > >>>> continue > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> let the user enter the title but to show the generated URL as > >>>>>>>>>> it’s > >>>>>> done > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>> AWM. And, importantly to allow the user to change the last > >>>>>>>>>> part of > >>>> the > >>>>>>>> URL > >>>>>>>>>> (it would change the page name). > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> That's why we display these options just for advanced and > >>>>>>>>>>> long-time users of XWiki, since they are used to the concepts. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Yes but URLs don't need an advanced user to understand the > >>>>>>>>>> concept > >>>>>> and I > >>>>>>>>>> agree with Vishal that we’re now causing a very large number > >>>>>>>>>> of > >>>> pages > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> have %25 in their URLs by default which is quite bad… Of > >>>>>>>>>> course > >>>>>> someone > >>>>>>>> can > >>>>>>>>>> spend their time monitoring what users are doing and renaming > >> pages > >>>>>>>>>> thereafter or educate their users to do that but we’re not > >>>>>>>>>> helping > >>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> we’re making it difficult. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> If your web site is not in English then you're forced to use > >> special > >>>>>>>>> characters like diacritics which makes it hard to avoid URL > >>>>>>>>> encoded characters (the browser location bar displays the URL > >>>>>>>>> nicely but if > >>>> you > >>>>>>>>> copy the URL the result is not nice). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Agreed. So I’d say it’s even more important to allow the user > >>>>>>>> to be > >>>> able > >>>>>>>> to easily view and change the resulting URL when they’re not in > >>>> English. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>>> -Vincent > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ----- > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> IMO what you are describing is advanced user behavior. > >>>>>>>>>>> Normal > >> users > >>>>>>>> don't > >>>>>>>>>>> generally care about their URLs and SEO. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I don’t fully agree with you. I have the feeling (can’t prove > >>>>>>>>>> it) > >>>>>> that a > >>>>>>>>>> good number of our users care about the generated URLs. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Also I think that simple users may care about URL without > >>>>>>>>>> being > >>>>>> advanced > >>>>>>>>>> users. Making them advanced users will expose them to a lot > >>>>>>>>>> more > >>>>>>>> complexity > >>>>>>>>>> than they need to know. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> But the beauty of XWiki is that you can customize it locally > >>>>>>>>>>> to perfectly match your needs. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> That’s not exactly true (and it’s far from being easy, just > >>>>>>>>>> check > >>>>>>>>>> createinline.vm): It means overriding large portions of vm > >>>>>>>>>> code > >> and > >>>>>>>> having > >>>>>>>>>> to do manual merges whenever you upgrade. A major PITA. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Vincent mentioned something about AWM. I don't see much > >> difference > >>>>>> from > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> Create Page. We generate the names from title here too. We > >> display > >>>>>> them > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>> the breadcrumb, but in a more simple way. Displaying the > >>>>>>>>>> "localhost"/server > >>>>>>>>>>> part is not simple user behavior. AWM is more complex. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ----- > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> So I would not change anything on the product side, since I > >> believe > >>>>>>>> these > >>>>>>>>>>> should be solved as custom changes for your instance. > >>>>>>>>>>> We want to encourage users to use page titles (with spaces > >>>>>>>>>>> in > >> them > >>>>>>>> since > >>>>>>>>>>> they are more readable and supported), while we are > >>>>>>>>>>> preserving > >> the > >>>>>> page > >>>>>>>>>>> name behavior for advances users (but we don't enforce it). > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I don’t agree with this sentence: We definitely don’t want to > >>>>>> encourage > >>>>>>>>>> users to use titles in URLs. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> If users made > >>>>>>>>>>> mistakes they can always change the title or rename the page. > >>>>>>>>>>> On the product side the only change I would like us to do is > >> using > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> URL > >>>>>>>>>>> naming, but this was debated in the past and dropped for > >> Vincent's > >>>>>>>>>> reasons. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> What reasons, I don’t remember a discussion about using URL > >>>>>>>>>> name > >>>>>> instead > >>>>>>>>>> of page name? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> So our main disagreement is that I consider that favouring > >>>>>>>>>> encoded characters in URLs is not a good thing while you > >>>>>>>>>> think it’s not a > >>>>>> large > >>>>>>>>>> enough problem to do something about it. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Would it make our UI too complex to use for simple users if > >>>>>>>>>> we > >> were > >>>>>>>>>> showing a URL and the ability to change the last part of it? > >>>>>>>>>> IMO > >>>>>> what’s > >>>>>>>>>> complex is when we have Page name and Page Title. But I don’t > >>>>>>>>>> feel > >>>>>>>> there’d > >>>>>>>>>> be confusion between URL and Page title. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> What do others think? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>>>>> -Vincent > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>>> Caty > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 11:57 PM, Vincent Massol < > >>>> vinc...@massol.net > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 Apr 2017, at 22:51, Vincent Massol > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <vinc...@massol.net> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Vishal, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, I misunderstood you in your first email. I understood > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> opposite. > >>>>>>>>>>>> I thought you were complaining that have 2 notions (page > >>>>>>>>>>>> name + > >>>> page > >>>>>>>>>> title) > >>>>>>>>>>>> was confusing but it’s actually the opposite! What you find > >>>>>> confusing > >>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>> the fact that it’s not easy for your users to set both the > >>>>>>>>>>>> page > >>>> name > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> page titles! > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> It’s funny (or not :)) since this is exactly what we had > >>>>>>>>>>>>> in > >> past > >>>>>>>>>>>> versions of XWiki and we had several complaints that it was > >>>>>> confusing > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>> have the 2 notions and this is why he hid the page name > >>>>>>>>>>>> only for > >>>>>>>>>> advanced > >>>>>>>>>>>> users. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, if I remember well, what we were doing was to ask > >>>>>>>>>>>> for > >>>> the > >>>>>>>> page > >>>>>>>>>>>> name and we were setting the title to the same as the page > >>>>>>>>>>>> name > >> by > >>>>>>>>>> default > >>>>>>>>>>>> and then the user could edit the title before saving the page. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> We’ve now done the opposite (user deciding on the title and > >>>>>>>>>>>> page > >>>>>> name > >>>>>>>>>>>> being derived from it) but leading to the issue you’re > >>>>>>>>>>>> raising > >>>> about > >>>>>>>> URL > >>>>>>>>>>>> SEO… > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>>>>>>>> -Vincent > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> See below. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 Apr 2017, at 14:20, Vishal > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <thewikinote...@gmail.com> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Vincent for your thorough reply.. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You guessed it right. We intend to have clean and short > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> urls > >> for > >>>>>> SEO > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Current scheme creates two problems: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) The Page name is fetched automatically from the Title. > >> Often > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> titles > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have spaces which translate as *percent characters *in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> url > >> which > >>>>>>>> makes > >>>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat unclean :) > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed you’re right. By hiding the page name we’re now > >> incitating > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>> have longer URLs and encoded characters showing up in URLs > >>>>>>>>>>>> which > >>>> is > >>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>>> nice I agree. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe one solution is to do something similar to what we > >>>>>>>>>>>>> do in > >>>> AWM, > >>>>>>>>>> i.e. > >>>>>>>>>>>> generate automatically the URL from the title entered by > >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >> user > >>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> show > >>>>>>>>>>>> the resulting URL to the user and give the user the > >>>>>>>>>>>> opportunity > >> to > >>>>>>>>>> change > >>>>>>>>>>>> the URL. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> See > >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Extension/ > >>>>>>>>>>>> App%20Within%20Minutes%20Application/AppWithinMinutes-Step1 > >>>>>>>>>>>> .png > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Secondly, to have the shorter url, we use only the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> short > >>>> forms > >>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> complete title. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ex. For title 'Pune University' we use name PU. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, you’re from Pune? :) I’ve been there about 15 times! > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That > >>>> was > >>>>>>>> in a > >>>>>>>>>>>> previous job where my company and KPIT Cummins were partners. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Otherwise in this hierarchy of pages, the url would be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much > >>>>>> longer. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ex. We have page 'Electronics and Telecommunications' > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> branch > >>>> under > >>>>>>>>>> page > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Pune University'. We should not have such a long url. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead > >>>>>> here > >>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>>>>> need > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PU/ENTC or Pune-University/ENTC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To avoid all this, what we currently do: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) On create page dialog, use PU as title.. This will > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> create > >> url > >>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>> PU. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If full name is used here as title, we need to use - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead > >> of > >>>>>>>> spaces > >>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> avoid percent characters in url. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) While in edit mode, change the title back to Pune > >> University. > >>>>>>>>>> Remove > >>>>>>>>>>>> any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - characters to make title clean. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is where confusion creeps in. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If these two terms create confusion, why I need to show > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them > >>>> both: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess the *confusion is due to term Name*. It doesn't > >> reflect > >>>>>>>> actual > >>>>>>>>>>>> usage > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the term. URL or weblink or link or web address would > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be > >> more > >>>>>> apt > >>>>>>>>>>>> terms > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to use to instead of Name. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding Page name vs Page URL. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> A bit of history: The reason we used page name and not > >>>>>>>>>>>>> page URL > >>>>>>>>>>>> originally is because what the user is creating is a > >>>>>>>>>>>> document in > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> database and initially it was called Document Name. Since > >>>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>> was a > >>>>>>>> bit > >>>>>>>>>>>> confusing for users, we had decided to call it Page Name. > >>>>>>>>>>>> It > >> just > >>>>>>>>>> happened > >>>>>>>>>>>> that the URL used was directly derived from the > >>>>>>>>>>>> document/page > >>>> name. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In practice the 3 concepts could have different values: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> * a value for the document’s name in the DB > >>>>>>>>>>>>> * another value for the document’s title > >>>>>>>>>>>>> * yet another value used in the URL. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> We’ve had discussions so that we could let the user > >>>>>>>>>>>>> provide > >>>> shorter > >>>>>>>>>> URLs > >>>>>>>>>>>> for pages in the future. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Now for the time being and since we don’t have this ATM, I > >> think > >>>> I > >>>>>>>>>> agree > >>>>>>>>>>>> with you that we could decide to display to the user the > >>>>>>>>>>>> URL > >> that > >>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>>>> generated (the encoded URL) and allow the user to change it. > >>>>>>>> Internally > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> user would change the document name. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My users can differentiate between Title and URL. But the > >> whole > >>>>>>>>>>>> procedure we > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> follow is certainly not understandable by all. And we > >> definitely > >>>>>>>> need > >>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> follow this whole long procedure, just to have short and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clean > >>>>>> urls. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, if you’re asking your users to care about the URLs > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >> get > >>>>>>>>>>>> generated, right now they need to be advanced users to be > >>>>>>>>>>>> able > >> to > >>>>>> edit > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> page name in the Create Page UI (since changing the title > >>>> afterwards > >>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>> too > >>>>>>>>>>>> cumbersome). > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by showing both fields at the first place itself, I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would > >>>> like > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shorten the procedure and url length. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m in agreement with you. Let’s see what others think. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for this interesting discussion! > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -Vincent > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context: http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble > . > >>>>>>>>>>>> com/Page-Title-and-Name-confusion-tp7603546p7603551.html > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >
