-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mark,
Okay, I lied about shutting up until someone paid me. Maybe I should threaten to keep posting until I get paid. ;) Mark H. Wood wrote: | On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 04:44:21PM -0400, Christopher Schultz wrote: |> | Assume that one has read the Tomcat logging page at |> | http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/logging.html |> |> Although the this is a good reference, you cannot follow any of the |> instructions on that page, because the logging has likely been set up in |> advance by the package manager. Since there is no standard way to |> configure logging (among package managers, that is), nobody on this list |> who doesn't have explicit experience with your |> OS/version/patchlevel/package manager can help you :( | | Not so. JULI imposes a standard way to configure logging, else it | could not find its configuration. Whatever else the packaging team | do, they must eventually either let JULI look where it always looks or | tell it in a standard way (-Djava.util.logging.config.file=/some/path) | where to find it. Either way, you know where to look. The package manager may have done all kinds of unholy things with the CLASSPATH (which, in a standard TC install, is ignored, so we can't exactly support questions like 'why does my CLASSPATH look like X on gnu/linux distro Z'). If the CLASSPATH is boned (from our perspective), the logging.properties file could be /anywhere/ and we would /not/ know it. | The same applies to log4j. It either uses a built-in assumption or is | told where to look in a way that is defined by log4j, not your distro. See above. |> $ cd $TOMCAT_HOME | | There is no occurrence of TOMCAT_HOME in the startup scripts for | "real" Tomcat 6.0.16 -- I checked yesterday. There are only two | occurrences of that string in the entire kit, and they are in | documentation. Maybe this is part of the confusion? Forgive me for using a colloquialism: this refers to the place where you actually installed Tomcat. "Installed it from a package manager", you say? Well, then, I can't tell you where the heck to CD. | All TC-related *configuration* files will | either be in one place, or they will point to each other. If this was | not so, they would not participate in configuring Tomcat and could be | ignored. It's not magic; the software has to be able to find all of | its bits, and if it can then you can too, by doing the same thing that | the software does. So, let me attempt to paraphrase what you're saying: TC installs are very easy to sort out because you either have a) a "standard" TC install where everything matches the official documentation or b) the package manager has kept things configured in such a way that it ought to be easy to figure out". Well, the very existence of this thread is proof that either your assertion is wrong, or there are a lot of lazy people out there who refuse to do their own (light) research. [snip snip snip] | See? This Tomcat is explicitly told use JULI for logging, and its | configuration is explicitly placed at | '/var/lib/tomcat-6/conf/logging.properties'. Forgive me for being elitist, but I would have figured that out in a second. The half-point of this whole argument is that the TC love-and-hugs support group (this list) shouldn't have to know the ins and outs of every distro's way of doing things. We just don't have that kind of time. If you find someone on the list who happens to have, say, Gentoo experience, well, then, you're in luck. If you get Chuck, he'll tell you to install from the canonical package if you want him to help you. |> [http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/logging.html] |> |> How can we document a distribution we not only do not distribute, but |> have no control over? | | The page assumes that one knows how to use 'ant' and a text editor. If you are reading that page, you are either a software developer or a software deployer. If you don't know how to use a text editor, you should be fired. There, I said it. I'm not sure knowledge of 'ant' is necessary for any of that. | This is not distribution-specific. How to pass property values to the | JRE is perhaps JRE-specific but not distro-specific. Exactly. It shouldn't have anything to do with the distro. This gets back to the OP who asserts that it's not straightforward to figure out what the heck is going on, and suggests that we outline every distro's style and how to follow the trail. We shouldn't have to do that. We should have official docs (we do!) that cover the material necessary (which I believe they do). They include examples, specific places to find things, etc. IF they have been relocated by a package manager, we cannot be responsible. What I'm saying is: don't come crying to us when your package-managed version doesn't match the official docs... go and cry to your package manager and say "what the heck happened to logging.properties?" (or whatever). | One can (and should) document a product's configuration and use | relative to what the product "knows", and require that the user | understands the details of his own choice of operating environment. Agreed. This particular user is asking us to explain the details of his environment to him. Either our documentation doesn't prove to be true in his environment (which is unclear... it seems like much ado about nothing), or he can't understand the documentation (which is very likely). The truth of the matter is that there is no substitution for experience. If you want to understand these things, you can't just read a 1-page FAQ and suddenly be enlightened. It's complicated. IF you get in there and play with the configuration, you'll start to understand it. My exasperated tone aside (with apologies to everyone), I do appreciate you pointing out that package managers do attempt to bring (their perceived) sanity to (TC's perceived) insanity, and that it really shouldn't be that hard. I completely agree. Thanks, - -chris -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkhaussACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PCGJwCfRpOFOMZXAhw8eVxbxFD7bGHl /zsAnRNrkrmc4y0KYeDuJSahpZrIoAEJ =oCG7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
