-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Coty,
On 1/19/17 12:57 PM, Coty Sutherland wrote: >> How about this: submit a topic to the Call for Papers[1] and >> choose "Panel Discussion" for the "Submission Type". If you can >> get some other maintainers coordinated, you can choose to prepare >> some slides (maybe 5 mins each) and/or come with some >> conversation questions to get things started with a panel. Open >> up to the audience as well. I suspect you'll get a good >> conversation going. I'll certainly be there unless I must be >> elsewhere. > > That sounds good to me. I'll put something together and submit as > soon as I can after checking with other maintainers to see if > they're interested. > >> I know that some of the APR and httpd folks are absolutely rabid >> about not breaking backwards-compatibility. Perhaps we could >> bring them into the discussion to hear some of the things that >> they look for when maintaining compatibility. > > That would be interesting. I'll try and chase up some of the > complaints that I've heard recently to see if I can bring them to > the list and sort them out. > >> That's a new major release of Tomcat, though. We ought to be able >> to break whatever we want, there. I think complaints about lack >> of backward-compatibility are unwarranted in this particular >> case. > > I'm not sure I agree with that (and I'm positive that other groups > don't because I've heard complaints). It's the same major version > (8), just a minor version update so the general expectation is that > there aren't any breaking changes. If we were talking about the > difference between 8 and 9, then sure we can do whatever is > necessary as long as things were properly deprecated, etc. That's a reasonable position to take IMO, it's just not the position that the Tomcat team took. Tomcat 8.5.x is essentially like the Debian back-ports system for a particular release. We were doing some great new things in Tomcat 9, some that would require e.g. newer Java versions, but Tomcat 8.0 had a documented Java-version requirement that we couldn't change. Tomcat 9, by definition, exists to support an as-yet-unreleased version of the Java Servlet Specification. So we can't release it, yet. But there is a LOT of good stuff in there that we weren't comfortable back-porting to Tomcat 8.0 for the reasons above. The result was Tomcat 8.5 which is essentially the best of both worlds. One could argue that Tomcat 9 should have become Tomcat 10 and Tomcat 8.5 should have instead been Tomcat 9.0, but our versioning-scheme has generally followed the Servlet-spec version, so that Tomcat X+1 supports the spec version following the one that Tomcat X supported. It's important that the Tomcat team understands these outside perspectives. We may have made a different decision given that kind of input. I'm glad that more maintainers, etc. are becoming a part of this community. I think it's going to improve things for everyone. I'm looking forward to meeting you in Miami! Thanks, - -chris > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Christopher Schultz > <ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote: Coty, > > On 1/11/17 12:24 PM, Coty Sutherland wrote: >>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Christopher Schultz >>>> <ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote: >>>>> +1 >>>> >>>> I'm glad someone is interested :) >>>> >>>>> Perhaps we could have some representatives from the >>>>> various distributions give a joint presentation. >>>> >>>> That would be great. I'd love to meet the other distro >>>> maintainers. > > [snip] > >>>>> I think it would be a good idea to use some of that time >>>>> to solicit feedback from the audience about what the >>>>> distros could do to make things easier... >>>> >>>> +1, definitely. I will to do anything that we can to drive >>>> adoption of tomcat up (distro-specific versions or ASF). > > How about this: submit a topic to the Call for Papers[1] and > choose "Panel Discussion" for the "Submission Type". If you can get > some other maintainers coordinated, you can choose to prepare some > slides (maybe 5 mins each) and/or come with some conversation > questions to get things started with a panel. Open up to the > audience as well. I suspect you'll get a good conversation going. > I'll certainly be there unless I must be elsewhere. > >>>> The biggest concern that I've heard from various of the >>>> involved people (and may be a reason why other distros don't >>>> consume updates as frequently) is that tomcat is not that >>>> great at maintaining backwards compatibility; > > Understood. > >>>> I hear this complaint a lot and I get push back from packages >>>> that have dependencies on tomcat when I do push our new >>>> revision updates. > > I know that some of the APR and httpd folks are absolutely rabid > about not breaking backwards-compatibility. Perhaps we could bring > them into the discussion to hear some of the things that they look > for when maintaining compatibility. In the Java world, there is no > binary-compatibility, for instance, but API compatibility is of > course essential. > >>>> I don't have any specific examples that I can think of right >>>> now other than the update from 8.0 to 8.5 removing BIO. > > That's a new major release of Tomcat, though. We ought to be able > to break whatever we want, there. I think complaints about lack of > backward-compatibility are unwarranted in this particular case. > > For the most part, Tomcat devs tend to feel free to modify > completely-internal APIs as necessary, but will make an effort to > maintain backward-compatibility for semi-internal APIs. It might be > a good exercise to identify which parts of Tomcat should be > considered (publicly) stable and which parts are okay to modify. > Backward-compatibility is relatively easy in Java for certain > things. Major refactorings usually don't happen in a > point-release. > > -chris > > [1] > http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/apachecon-north-america/progr am > > /cfp > > >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYgQHaAAoJEBzwKT+lPKRYSGMP/333kYCdvQDqYNaqLSrv/ghR bi8pVH8ZsfUXplfhkOX1G0VJMYnCPiT/zo46m2XIEZuW7wpDJOKH1qoxh3Sf99Nc yNvzlbePla9eTo4QBTohGsuzzR3tw9T2xSh2lUunVG4AeB5ZZ/ZLxYiNvBmK8cYd tilfbp6FQFKk1U4lcWb58sNYYwRZEikyx8+zjkQCqtdMSf8P6FSLtN/wujsmbV5c 8b9R+FuXQKeWrPDWVNdmN7+mmjMfUNj4wNt3Cx5PyzMiQsxEz0NF7865j8dlGmH1 WeyOJHN8/yi4eK++UoAKM0Tm3slqfnYq2o8jhR5fbEddpQCUtAM18L1OE1qwRp6J LemPobpICzMgPZIM8I7jfSmmiOTIGGHE3OeT9KDRwtRvume/qLPRZzvZ9hV89vOw AHTPp1P1vXwVHDOSOxSnNAFlLyKsYPSU8MUqrZb8WYsRjlSSwEGLZxVRK7MLqmJO 03x4JbM1U1wFfOgWLqahvbnkmqVUBNq4A0MqVh0wM6jYtVl8gZL/BpI+BF9yKOTg D3jfGG6phFZzxvQe5vjxrdWXFd63wMKC4pzOFxc+1eVJtU0a+ld+X5uAOML0teED 7hatMjrqD174Ck/feYNuFGjSUvYltyNBWj/sRien/mNk0I6mZiB23V9J8N0/kxWy ySj/XFNYi4fa8GlM+k7G =b+5I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
