On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:09 AM, cordenier christophe <christophe.corden...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > > And what about integration of Tapestry in other framework ? > > From my experience view, integrating technologies in Tapestry is fun and > fast, and the one provided by Tapestry are really good and enough to do what > a Web Application should do. !but when i want to do the inverse i am facing > a problem with Tapestry public API. Getting the Tapestry registry is simple > but calling services from the outside is not as easy. > > For exemple, currently i am trying to secure my application by using > spring-security to centralize security concerns, and then create a RoleVoter > to secure also Tapestry URLs. To achieve this, Spring allows me to access to > the servlet context and then to Tapestry Registry, now we can imagine that > analyzing the URL will be as easy as using the ComponentEventLinkEncoder > service, but in real i had to create an instance of RequestImpl, retrieve > others services, set the request into the RequestGlobals... service just to > analyze the URL !
I can see where your frustration might come from in this respect. At many times during the development of Tapestry, we've had to make a choice: easy and automatic for the typical user, or easily extensible for the power-developer. That's a no-brainer: easy and automatic for the typical user is the way to go. In this particular case, it was all about making things work correctly from inside Tapestry; the idea that you would be "analyzing" a Tapestry URL when not in the middle of processing a Tapestry request (and therefore, deep into the pipeline that automatically sets up the RequestGlobals values) is just foreign to Tapestry. That is, to make that rare use-case easier for you, would complicate the code for most other users, making it that much harder to extend and override Tapestry for more typical use cases. In fact, where other people might write servlets, I would tend to contribute a new Dispatcher to the MasterDispatcher service to accomplish the same goal (in the rare case that existing Dispatchers and other Tapestry mechanisms could not fulfill the required role). I'm also a bit surprised at how eager people are to make use of cumbersome solutions like Spring Security to accomplish simple tasks such as protecting pages. The Spring Security logic is path-based, requiring an awkward mapping from paths to Tapestry pages. When I need to implement that kind of security, I define annotations that I can place on pages and provide a filter that checks for the annotation on the page ... and I've seen multiple clients do the same thing. Ideally there would be a single solution for this, but I've found that page security is just not a one-size-fits-all solution. In other words, jumping over backwards for integrations with technologies is often not the best approach. Yes, it would be nice to have a checkbox "compatible with Spring Security" but I'd rather talk about how easy it is to create your own custom extensions that work precisely as you need. We've had this discussion at Formos; it was often easier to create a totally custom solution in Tapestry than it was to take an off-the-shelf solution that did 80% of what was needed and customize it the last 20% of the way. > > Tapestry is so powerful and has everything to work standalone (see wrappers > around servlet API, or PageTester, ...), but sometimes it's hard to exploit > this great feature ... > > Best Regards, > Christophe > > > > 2009/12/23 Howard Lewis Ship <hls...@gmail.com> > >> While it's true that other frameworks (Grails, Wicket, Rails) have >> large numbers of integrations, if you talk to real developers you find >> out that the majority of those integrations are not actually usable >> for production work. All too often, they are orphaned, unsupported, >> incomplete, naive or coded against an earlier version of the core >> framework ... or some combination of all of those. >> >> I do a lot of training and consulting on Tapestry with a lot of groups >> and what I find is that one size does not fit all, even for simple >> things like user authentication/login. I'm quite happy to have a >> limited number of basic integrations that are documented, supported >> and tested. Would I like every application to just be a matter of >> mixing pre-built modules together? Yes. Do I think it is realistic, >> for ANY framework? No. >> >> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Howard Lewis Ship <hls...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > Noe, I've been down this path before, regrettably. The ONLY thing to >> > do it to ignore the trolls. >> > >> > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Newham, Cameron <cameron.new...@bl.uk> >> wrote: >> >> I don't agree with the OP that the ServerSide discussion shows Tapestry >> "has lost the battle" - two posters state they don't want to see Tapestry >> mentioned. That's all there is. >> >> >> >> However, I can't agree with you Thiago. The old saying is "if you say it >> enough times then people will believe it is true". >> >> >> >> If you are just going to stand by and let "trolls" post bad things about >> Tapestry unchallenged then they have won the argument - regardless of how >> bad their argument may be and how incorrect their views may be. >> >> >> >> After all, someone pitching up and wanting a framework will read what >> they've written and believe it. Who is to say these anti-Tapestry people are >> wrong? Not you - because you won't counter their arguments! :-) >> >> >> >> Sure - don't feed the trolls. But all that is necessary is to say >> something positive; not engage them in an argument. >> >> >> >> Merry Xmas everyone. >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo [mailto:thiag...@gmail.com] >> >> Sent: 22 December 2009 15:26 >> >> To: Tapestry users >> >> Subject: Re: Discussion >> >> >> >> Em Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:45:20 -0200, Banchi Liko <banchi...@gmail.com> >> >> escreveu: >> >> >> >>> Hi guys, >> >> >> >> Hi! >> >> >> >>> There is a discussion going on here >> >>> http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=58858 and seems >> >>> like Tapestry ihas already been ruled out as a viable and serious web >> >>> framework. >> >> >> >> TheServerSide comments has too many trolls to have a good, reasonable >> >> discussion there. >> >> >> >>> Wicket seems to be the favorite. >> >> >> >> Some people who bother to post there like Wicket. Most people who like >> >> Tapestry, maybe all of them, don't bother to post there. >> >> >> >>> I'm sad Tapestry has lost the battle and afraid it might die soon. >> >> >> >> Please source or explain your statements or you'll be treated like a >> troll >> >> here. >> >> >> >>> Please go and contribute and let your voice be >> >>> heard before Tapestry dies a horrible death. >> >> >> >> No, thank you. Posting there will not change Tapestry's fate. Using it, >> >> exchanging ideas in the mailing lists and contributing code will (and >> >> already is). >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo >> >> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, >> >> and instructor >> >> Owner, software architect and developer, Ars Machina Tecnologia da >> >> Informação Ltda. >> >> http://www.arsmachina.com.br >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Howard M. Lewis Ship >> > >> > Creator of Apache Tapestry >> > >> > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to >> > learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! >> > >> > (971) 678-5210 >> > http://howardlewisship.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Howard M. Lewis Ship >> >> Creator of Apache Tapestry >> >> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to >> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! >> >> (971) 678-5210 >> http://howardlewisship.com >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> >> > -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator of Apache Tapestry The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! (971) 678-5210 http://howardlewisship.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
