Ok...very late for me....Horrible post! But I do have some real points... let me bullet point
- dynamic language frameworks offer great but often overexaggerated productivity ( dependent on lots of factors!) - PHP does not mean you can hire less than talented folks and expect a huge cost/productivity savings (Cake PHP has a learning curve too!) - Open source ecosystem in Java blows away any other environment - Django and Rails are great but cost of retraining is high - You can't argue with folks who are beat up by the mistakes of java past and refuse to look at the light at the end of the Java tunnel(groovy, grails, scala) - A skilled tap or wo team can likely meet or exceed the real cost/effort level of a django/grails/php/rails team and leave a better system in place - Communicating with those who are lost in the hype of dynamic language frameworks is difficult. too late...too tired....but hope the bullet points make up for my previous post. i think they are all points worth discussion. 2009/2/18 Daniel Honig <daniel.ho...@gmail.com> > Just tell him to go check out grails before he goes off and tries to > re-invent the infrastructure in cake php. > > That being said once T5 is part of my migration path once I reach the > limits of scalability from all the MOP overhead from dynamic language > frameworks. > In a perfect world, I'd write my domain in GORM and expose it to tapestry > via some lightweight service layer.... > > But if your boss really wants to go and re-invent everything in Django or > PHP it might just be a lost cause. > > You might want to point out that often the productivity gain is a a bit of > a shell game....In any of these languages you still need to hire good or > great developers to get productivity. In dynamic frameworks you can't keep > a stable codebase unless you write good to great integration tests to verify > your execution paths are stable and not doing something crazy from release > to release.....IMHO, the productiviy gains from dynamic frameworks are a bit > overexaggerated......All of these frameworks have a learning > curve.....Unless your boss wants a project delivered by a bunch of PHP > script kids?.....It's a shell game.... > > Despite my love of grails, after working with grails for a year and a > previous life that included lots of WO and T4 experience, I think there is > no reason that a talented agile Tap X team could not keep up with the true > productivity of any other framework. Full stop ;) > > The trouble is how do you bring communicate this effectively? > > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:03 AM, Borut Bolčina <borut.bolc...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> just want to share a piece of corporate mind set with you. >> >> My boss decided that none of the Java frameworks is productive in >> comparison >> to PHP, Ruby and Django and that there are no web sites written in any >> Java >> framework. Can you believe that? I would like to prove him wrong with >> Tapestry Cayenne combo. Unfortunately I have no list of T5 success >> stories. >> >> I am sorry for spamming, but I had to let the steam out! >> >> -Borut >> > >
