Awesome! I'll try to have a look in a couple of hours, and if I can make the time, I'd like to contribute either in raw content and/or collaborative editing. As for a discussion channel for the book, why not use google-groups?
Alex Kotchnev wrote: > I've created a new project for the proposed book at > http://code.google.com/p/tapestry5-book , and posted the proposed table of > contents at > http://code.google.com/p/tapestry5-book/wiki/ProposedTableOfContents . Now > that I'm looking at it, it's a little disappointing as the TOC doesn't > really have anything new in it (e.g. some of it is covered in tutorials, > other is in the project docs, etc). However, I guess that the content really > can't be all that different - it's all about building web apps, covering the > same materials as the other documentation. In the end, I think that the book > will be different from the other existing documents based on its style and > breadth of content, and not so much in the topics it covers. > > Anyway, I would like to create a mailing list and add everyone who has > expressed an interest in contributing to the book. Unfortunately, Google > Code doesn't have mailng lists, so I'll probably have to look around for > that (Nabble, maybe?). Any suggestions would be welcome here. > > In terms of moving the proposed TOC forward, here are some of my next steps > : > 1. Attribute the main sections of the project documentation into possible > chapters in the book. > 2. Discuss feedback from this list on the content of the proposed TOC : e.g. > any alternative ideas on how to organize the book, changes to the proposed > chapter titles, order, etc. > > It would be great if there are any volunteers to investigate some of the > issues that were discussed previously in the thread below, I'll probably > post the needed tasks somewhere on the wiki as well. > > When we get our mailing list set up, I think that individuals or groups of > individuals can claim ownership of each chapter (and thus get "voting > rights" on the TOC, chapter layout, further modifications, etc. > > Cheers, > > Alex Kotchnev > > > > On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 4:59 AM, Hugo Palma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> inline >> >> Alex Kotchnev wrote: >> >> >>> Would there be any value to having a top-level domain for the book (e.g. >>> tapestry-book.org or something like that), or can we find it a home for >>> the >>> book somewhere under the Tapestry namespace ? >>> >>> >>> >> A top-level domain should brink more visibility to the effort. Also, in the >> future we could probably spend some of the monetary payback to pay for the >> domain and some hosting solution so that we could include the live version >> of the book application and other cool stuff. >> Still, for now i think we can live with a project on some project hosting >> site where we can host the book files and wiki. >> >> >>> A note on the potential mode for governing decisions : I was thinking that >>> in the next couple of days, I'll post a list of possible chapters to >>> include >>> in the book. Then, we can collect a first set of volunteers for people >>> take >>> ownership of each chapter. After the initial set of volunteers, the >>> chapter >>> owners will vote on addition of new chapters and giving ownership of >>> chapters to new contributors (if needed). >>> >>> >>> >> Shouldn't the outline be already created in a tapestry-book wiki ? >> We could decide on where to host it and then move the discussion to the >> dedicated list and use its wiki for the outline. >> >> On whether the book would cover additional libraries (e.g. chennilekit, >> >>> t5components): I think that after we get to a good place where we have >>> enough content on the core we can probably spend some time on those as >>> well, >>> possibly with contributions from the project owners. Conceptually, it >>> would >>> be impossible to include all 3rd party / contrib libraries in the book (or >>> it will always be incomplete) . I guess my point is that I think we'd want >>> to describe Tapestry and most essential additions (e.g. t5-hibernate, >>> t5-spring, etc). >>> >>> >>> >> While it's true that if we go down the line of including third party >> libraries it will always be incomplete and maybe unfair to some i think it >> would be important to cover the ones that we consider the most used. We >> could go with a voting process where each one would say the top 2 or 3 third >> party libraries in his opinion. The top 2 or 3 would get included in the >> book. >> >> Cheers, >> >>> Alex Kotchnev >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:13 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo < >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Em Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:30:41 -0300, Alex Kotchnev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> escreveu: >>>> >>>> Here are a couple of the next steps that I think would be useful in >>>> moving >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> the effort forward: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Nice! I was thinking of posting a similar set of questions here . . . :) >>>> >>>> 1. Post a rough outline of the table of contents in the book (initially, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> probably on the wiki). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> +1 I can't thing of another way of kicking off this project. >>>> I just suggest another step: just start writing real content after >>>> refining >>>> the table of contents, thus avoiding some Frankensteinian results. >>>> >>>> 2. Experiment somewhat w/ the publishing / collaboration methodology. >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> 3. One of my areas of concern is how the merging of xml/docbook would >>>> work >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> in the long term. I know it's just text, but I'd imagine the doc-book >>>>> project will probably have it's own way of editing content and >>>>> converting >>>>> it into docbook >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I always tend to prefer handwriting documents and code over tools (so >>>> Howard's Tapestry 5, I guess :) and we could define some policies related >>>> to >>>> use of tags, whitespace and maximum line length. I think the merging >>>> problems would be reduced this way. >>>> >>>> 5. I think it would be best if we use either an existing "examples" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> project (e.g. like jumpstart) or take one and modify it to fit under a >>>>> particular >>>>> theme that gets developed throughout the book >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> +1 to find one single application that will be developed throughout the >>>> book. It should be hosted in some repository (SourceForge, java.net, >>>> etc). >>>> Maybe it could even be integrated as a Tapestry subproject. >>>> >>>> Here are a couple more outstanding and pesky issues that are still very >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> murky in my head : >>>>> 1. Would a book like this be published under some open source license >>>>> (e.g.I know that there are a couple of 'open source' books, e.g. the CVS >>>>> book the SVN book, etc) , maybe Creative commons ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> It would be really hard to define each contributor share in the profits, >>>> so >>>> I think some open license and proper credits would be a better fit. This >>>> would also attract more people to Tapestry 5, as there would be more free >>>> documentation in the internet about it. >>>> >>>> The open source book does not prevent a printed version of the book. >>>> 37signals, for example, sells the PDF and printed versions of ther >>>> Getting >>>> Real book, but it can be read for free in their website ( >>>> http://gettingreal.37signals.com/). By the way, very interesting read. >>>> :) >>>> >>>> 2. How to make the decisions regarding a book's content ? Would it be >>>> some >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> voting involved ? E.g. if someone thinks a particular chapter should be >>>>> in >>>>> the book, and others don't agree, how to decide if the chapter is in the >>>>> book or no (here comes the concept of "committers" again) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Looking at several different projects , there are two main ways to >>>> organize >>>> a team: >>>> 1) Benevolent dictatorship. The team has a leader that listens to >>>> everybody, but he/she decides. >>>> 2) Straight democracy. We could (re)use the Apache model (my choice). >>>> >>>> 3. Can we continue using this T5 users list or discussions regarding the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> book are a distraction ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> IMHO, the Tapestry users list is already used for two very different >>>> Tapestry versions, so we should open some other communication channel >>>> (forum, another mailing list, maybe a tapestry-book one). >>>> >>>> Another questions: >>>> >>>> 4) Would it only cover 1st party packages or 3rd party ones >>>> (t5components, >>>> chinellikit, etc) too? >>>> >>>> My first thoughts: yes, and the 3rd party packages would happily write >>>> about their creations. I would. :) >>>> >>>> 5) Would it also have a cookbook section or chapter? >>>> >>>> My answer: yes, and we could reuse the Tapestry wiki pages here. The book >>>> would then be something like a central place to find additional >>>> information, >>>> something similar to what the Hibernate document is. >>>> >>>> I'm really very positively surprised by the amount of feedback so far, >>>> and >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I'm very curious to see how far we can take this. Please comment on any >>>>> of >>>>> the ideas above, rip me to shreds if you think this is the wrong way of >>>>> doing it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I second your words, Alex. This is going to be a really interesting >>>> project, involving people from many places around the world, having >>>> different first languages, different visions, but sharing the same goal: >>>> promoting our favorite Java web framework by writing a good book about >>>> it. >>>> :) >>>> >>>> Thiago >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > > -- http://thegodcode.net
