I'd be happy to help out Toby
2008/8/25 marcelo_Java <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I'm want to be part of this, > > I've use tapestry for over two years now and created many J2EE solutions > with it. > My most recently battle was when I wanted to create a CMS using a WYSIWYG > editor called TinyMCE with tapestry and I was stuck until I discover the > outputraw component. > > Regards, > Marcelo Rodrigues > > > > Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > > > > It is certainly an interesting idea. > > > > I think HIbernate follows a similar approach; they have a Wiki > > (Confluence, perhaps) and they "scrape" it to get the packaged > > documentation. > > > > We could look into running a more involved Wiki, perhaps from > > tapestry.formos.com. Confluence would be reasonable, as I can get an > > open-source project license for any of the Atlassian products. > > > > The problem with this is oversight; writing a book in any format > > consists of a lot of dull work. In an open community its hard to > > motivate people, without a direct stake, to do that kind of dull work. > > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Alex Kotchnev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> First of all, I apologize for the long post in advance, I couldn't > figure > >> out how to make it shorter. > >> > >> I've been thinking about how much I miss the unborn "T5 in Action" book. > >> I > >> spoke to Howard a while back and he said that it's unlikely that a new > >> revision of the "Tapestry In Action" (from Manning) would happen : > >> understandably, he has the framework to worry about, not the books, and > >> it's > >> unlikely that he'd have 1 year to take away from work and write a book. > >> > >> Thus, I've been trying to figure out ways to substitute for the missing > >> manuscript. Here are my impressions so far: > >> > >> * The T5 book from PacktPub is a nice intro, but it's out of date and > >> it's > >> kinda shallow > >> * The wiki has some nice content on it, but it's disorganized and a > >> little > >> too random: you may find something useful on a subject, and then, you > >> may > >> not > >> * The project docs are often quite useful and often times quite deep, > but > >> they don't have enough examples to put things in context > >> * The tutorials are all focused around "getting started", and don't have > >> enough substance > >> * Finally, the example apps (e.g. JumpStart, t5-acegi example, shams, > >> etc) > >> are extremely useful; however, (by design) there's little narrative > >> surrounding them to explain how and why things work the way they do. > >> > >> Thus, the bottom line is that one has to hunt down 5 different > resources > >> (possibly more) to pull together a coherent picture , especially when > one > >> goes deeper than the "getting started" stage. > >> > >> Now, I clearly don't know enough about T5 yet to write a book myself (as > >> much as that sounds appealing to the ego) and it's unlikely that I could > >> possibly dedicate the time and effort to do it all. So, I had the idea > >> for a > >> while that it would be extremely cool and useful if a bunch of the > people > >> interested in T5 could get together (incl. myself) and write a book on > >> the > >> subject. Tim Sweetser jumped in with the idea on the IRC channel that we > >> could do a "collaborative online book" : put together a rough outline > of > >> the potential content (chapter and section-wise), then let users > >> contribute > >> to the effort by filling in the blanks (with some editorial oversight). > >> So, > >> if something like this were possible, a bunch of people can get their > >> minds > >> together, each one contribute a chapter or two and kick off the effort. > >> This > >> way, each one person can focus on a subset of the problem, describe it > in > >> sufficient depth (e.g. research the areas that he/she is unfamiliar > >> with), > >> and not weigh down anyone in particular with an enormous amount of > effort > >> (such as writing a whole book). > >> > >> Surveying the landscape, similar things already exist. Tim Sweetser > >> mentioned that Django did something like this. I know that Grails has > >> quite > >> a thorough user manual that covers most of the important areas of the > >> framework. I also remember bumping into the PHP manual where people > could > >> comment and add relevant examples and such. So, in conclusion, this is > >> possible, people have definitely done it, and it's HUGE for the > community > >> around the project. > >> > >> So, the next question is, how should something like this be done ? > >> * The Wiki seems like a no brainer to start with, add the TOC and then > >> allow > >> people to contribute. The potential problem with it is that code and the > >> examples can easily become stale. I know that the examples of the Grails > >> user manual are somehow compiled and checked that they run before a new > >> version of the manual is published. > >> * Another option seems to be putting a bunch of Docbook files in SVN and > >> collaborating through SVN to move the book forward. The upside of doing > >> something like this is that it gives us an immediate perk of being able > >> to > >> export a printable version of the book. Downside is that contributing to > >> the > >> book is not all that easy (e.g. some DocBook knowledge needed, SVN > >> access, > >> etc) > >> * Yet another option could possibly be Google Docs. The upside of this > is > >> that the learning curve is about 0 and publishing it in some decent > >> format > >> is easy. The downsides are that possibly can be a PITA to share the doc > >> w/ > >> the right people > >> * Tim mentioned that maybe some kind of CMS would be nice, but at the > >> same > >> time, it might be a bit of an overkill. > >> > >> So, in summary, here are a laundry list of requirements: > >> * The book should have thorough coverage of the different aspects of > >> working > >> w/ T5 : from getting started to components and advanced topics (e.g. IoC > >> magic) > >> * The book should be easy to contribute to - comments, code examples > >> * It would be nice if there is a decent printable version > >> * It would be great if we can leverage some of the existing resources: > >> e.g. > >> wiki, example apps, tutorials, etc. > >> * It would be nice if we can come up with a way to keep the code in the > >> book > >> in working order (e.g. if we reference some of the example apps, that > >> could > >> do wonders in keeping a runnable version of the examples) > >> * There should be some structure in the book (e.g. more than just the > >> flat > >> wiki namespace) > >> * There probably should be some editorial oversight to prevent one of > the > >> known trolls from putting garbage in. > >> > >> > >> So, here come the questions: > >> 1. Does this sound like a good idea ? Maybe I don't know the right > places > >> to > >> look or my mind is too shallow to keep them all together... > >> 2. Is there an existing place where this effort can be channeled better, > >> instead of creating something new ? > >> 3. If this could be a new effort (e.g. a project tapestry-doc, maybe??), > >> what are any additional requirements for doing it (in addition to some > of > >> the ones listed above). > >> 4. If this is to be done, what's the best way of doing it ? I'll > research > >> to > >> see if I can find out how Django did their, but general feedback & ideas > >> on > >> the technicalities would be very useful. E.g. how do people collaborate > >> best > >> on writing a book ? Is there an existing service that might make this > >> easier > >> ? > >> > >> Any comments and feedback on any of the topics above would be greatly > >> appreciated. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Alex Kotchnev > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > > > Creator Apache Tapestry and Apache HiveMind > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/T5-%3A-Let%27s-write-a-book-%21-tp19146710p19148673.html > Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
