I don't really want to add my comments to a blog but I guess I can make some here.
Specifically - I'll just go down the list he referenced at the top as being concerns of sorts: -) JSF - Yes, there certainly is a lot of news about JSF all the time. I hear that some people are actually using it too. I also have the feeling that this is really geared towards the winforms / .net / build-my-app-for-me-with-a-gui kind of crowd. They can have that crowd if they want it because I want nothing to do with those kinds of people. :) It also mentions something about the positioning of java web frameworks as far as adoption. Obviously struts has been around since I don't know how long...After doing a lot of tinkering with embedded systems / distributed (and I do mean distributed, not just a "phrase" ) enterprise systems / etc for a few years I was finally forced to face "java web development" again. ...When last I left it velocity had barely come out and I'm not sure if there was anything else going on. I took a peak at my co-workers "struts" application that he had started coding up and almost immediately wanted to slit my wrists....Things looked even ~worse~ than when I had left it - if that's even possible. Acrobatics with session objects -> jsp "views" were nauseating and un-interesting.. ....I guess webwork has made things better in that area. If you are in to that sort of thing. Tapestry does have some competitors now - but would there really even be a JSF / Wicket / Stripes / etc framework around if not for Tapestry? Well? Maybe...maybe not...Since everyone seems to like failing to properly copy Howard's work I remain unconvinced of the viability of any of the other players....for the winforms crowds maybe - but not for real developers writing real applications. =p -) Rails ....Oh I don't know. I'm sure it's fun to write applications in rails but again - not real enterprise applications that your companies future will live or die upon the success of - ie a product. Sure, you've got your revolutionhealth.com example of a real rails enterprise application to look at. ( http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/02/revolution-health-profile) The things they don't talk about are what makes that such crock. I only happen to know these things because my best friend helped write it when we both left our previous employer. He's still doing it today if you can believe it. :0 . It's ok to write an enterprise rails app when you have the most ridiculously huge obnoxious server boxes known to man running it powered by capitol from rich AOL founders. Scaling problems? Through some more chips in that bitch! BLehhh.... He has actually been trying to solve some of the problems they have by looking at T5 as the model for writing components in a web environment. We're discussing the possibility of him switching to jruby && re-using some of the existing Tapestry 5 support to run things in the background while the rest of it still remains in ruby form as far as anyone else is concerned. Of course this is only between he and I privately right now, don't want to bug Howard about it until the idea has germinated enough. .. There's a reason why they have gag commercials of rails vs. Tapestry you know. ;) They still have a long ways to go though...Like getting the runtime part right - let alone a viable architecture for writing re-usable code in massive applications. They are trying though - http://ajaxian.com/archives/railsconf-2007-day-1 . Oops, we added subdomain caching of assets but forgot that you have to consistently use the same subdomain for an asset instead of cycling the names around in order to get the benefit of caching.. Garrr...They will get there some day though I'm sure. -) Grails / Tools - ? I don't care. -) Shifting sands - Yes this is / was an issue. Looking at an abstract class with abstract properties isn't exactly the most popular idea these days with all the good work being done around Pojo's and such. This is the core reason why T5 had to happen. It's why seam hasn't been able to support it as well as a slew of other things. ...Real pojo classes make a world of difference. So yeah, I guess there are concerns to be had and such but "eh" ...I'm not feeling very fussed about any of it. T5 is everything we've always wanted Tapestry to be and it's only just begun. If things haven't picked up by this time next year I'll be more worried but there are only so many new projects being started every day ....Give it a chance to get used first before getting worried about it. :) p.s. We do actually have more developers now. Besides Daniel Gredler the vote passed just today and Marcus Schulte / Ben Dotte are now officially committers. On 5/21/07, Howard Lewis Ship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Warner has posted a blog entry on Tapestry's future: http://jroller.com/page/WarnerOnstine?entry=why_hasn_t_tapestry_been I'd love to see more comments. Honest comments about your experiences going from 3 to 4, your thoughts on better adoption, how you feel about Tapestry 5 (especially if you are in a situation where you'll need to upgrade). Please avoid any comparisons of Tapestry to other frameworks (that just causes flame wars). -- Howard M. Lewis Ship TWD Consulting, Inc. Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry Creator, Apache HiveMind Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
-- Jesse Kuhnert Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer Open source based consulting work centered around dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com
