LuKreme a écrit :
> On 6-Mar-2009, at 15:10, mouss wrote:
>>> How is it the same? Already read messages in inbox means the user has
>>> "accepted" those messages without trashing them or junking them.
>>
>> This is wrong. it is not true for my own mail. I visit my mailbox,
>> looking for important messages. and only when I have the time (which
>> maybe days later), I move missed spam to the Junk folder.
>
> Right, but those message that ARE Spam wouldn't be marked as read, would
> they?
They will. Think "Thunderbird", not "outlook". when you select a message
in TB (and this need not be manual. when you open a folder in TB, last
unread message is generally selected), it is read. whether this is a
feature or bug is not the question: any approach used here should work
with the MUAs that are "supported" (and I can't say TB is not supported!).
> Also, *your* use of mail is rather more sophisticated than the
> regular user.
>
I've seen "normal" users do similar things: open a message, wonder what
to do with it, take some time to ask, then they say "ok, so that was
spam"....
others read the spam message and skip it ("what are these admins doing
here? they keep telling us what not do, instead of stopping this junk...").
>> and on the other side, I voluntarily mark some messages as unread. to
>> see them in bold.
>
> So those messages would not be auto-learned as ham until such time that
> they were marked as read.
>
which may be days later, or even never. yes, I overload "read/unread"
flag, but I am not the only one. and this flag wasn't designed for
training a filter either, so I can't come and say "the read/unread flag
will be used for training the filter".
>>> .Junk means the user, or the user's MUA, has flagged a message that is
>>> not tagged as spam.
>>>
>>> False junk would get pulled out of .Junk into the inbox and relearned as
>>> ham.
>>
>> this one is ok. The problem is with
>> - missed spam not yet moved to the junk folder
>> - false positives, which may be missed (if the junk folder is full of
>> junk, ya know what...), not yet found, ... etc.
>
> Right, false positives in the junk folder would get learned as spam, and
> you only get unlearned if the user moved the message to the Inbox.
>
> but as I think more and more, I change what I want to do slightly. My
> current thinking is this:
>
> If there is a .sa-ham folder, learn the messages in it as ham.
> else learn the read messages in INBOX
I use Junk/Innocent for this. The reason is that in many clients, the
Junk folder is special:
- It is localized. My TB shows "Indésirables"
- it is listed near the top. you don't have to scroll down
Also, SA isn't the only piece to train.
>
> If there is an .sa-spam folder, learn the messages in it as spam
> else learn the messages in Junk
>
and Junk/Spam/ for this (same reason as above).
> This gives people who setup .sa-{ham,spam} folders compete control over
> what is learned and still does some learning from everything else.
>
> Keeping in mind that Junk is only mail that the MUA or the user thinks
> is spam that was not tagged as spam my SA.
>
yes. this is one of the problems.
anyway, Thanks everybody for the feedback (of course, more feedback is
welcome, maybe offlist to avoid annoying everybody ;-p)
