Re: knn query parser, number of results and filtering by score

Wed, 18 Oct 2023 06:32:59 -0700 

Hi Alessandro,
thank you for clarification! I havent't read something about "topK is per shard" in the documentation, but maybe I've missed that somewhere. From a performance and implementation perspective, this might make sense. From a users perspective, I'd expect that "topK" is per collection, and not per shard, so the same behavior as "rows". I should't have to think about the collection data layout while formulating queries and interpreting the layouts. Now, if "topK" is per shard, we assume that good matching results are evenly distributed among the shards. This might not be always the case. If we use features like collapse & expand, block/join or explicit document routing strategies, this might lead to strange results. In this case, it might be better to retrieve the topK per shard, join them all together and sort them by score, and take topK from that sorted list to get the correct overall topK. What do you think about that? We've also found https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-16952, which might be correlated. 


I also tried to understand 
https://github.com/apache/lucene/blob/723c05b047b4a66105636162bb3e0daaf2cc1de5/lucene/core/src/java/org/apache/lucene/search/AbstractKnnVectorQuery.java#L337, 
but failed to get the details.



I oberved the explain data further. Every document gets a score, which 
is the result of the similarity function. However, some of them are 
marked with "not in top 6 docs". So from my point of view those whould 
not be part of the search result.

Mirko

Am 17.10.2023 um 18:16 schrieb Alessandro Benedetti:

Hi Mirko,
the topK is per shard.
Then shards * k results are aggregated.
Does it make sense?

In regards to the debugging, it seems a bug, they all should be with a
score and within top-k
--------------------------
*Alessandro Benedetti*
Director @ Sease Ltd.
*Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
*Apache Solr PMC Member*

e-mail:a.benede...@sease.io


*Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
Consulting | Training | Open Source

Website: Sease.io<http://sease.io/>
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On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 at 10:41, Mirko Sertic<mirko.ser...@web.de>  wrote:


Hey!

Thank you for your help!

We are running in cloud mode on GKE. Our index has 2 shards, and every
shard has 2 replicas. The leader is a TLOG, the other replica is a PULL.

Our main query is basically {!knn f=VECTOR_FIELD topK=10}[VECTOR DATA].
Thats it.

I am really unsure how to debug this issue, Solr explain only gives some
basic information. I really do not understand why I am getting more than
topK=10 search results, and some of them do not match according to the
explain data.

Here is an example debug log of the parsed query:

"rawquerystring" : "{!knn f=TEXTEMBEDDINGS_BESCHREIBUNG_768
topK=6}[-0.72818565,-0.41219202,0.5225889,0.53035444,0.76394194,0.7767894,0.82073385,0.95900697,-0.36803666,-0.21959017,0.7140104,-0.13439204,0.06747756,1.3333143,0.2797215,1.3020324,0.13869889,-0.10991136,0.21142228,-0.36915645,-0.15180133,-0.62384933,-0.51568866,0.23904686,-0.61362225,0.026911864,0.36433217,-0.6443799,0.86989623,-0.0058394694,0.360967,-0.39565668,0.4483029,-0.26269752,0.24516392,0.44815013,0.43040967,0.3587644,0.873287,-0.10215642,-0.25633913,-0.21385787,-0.5121543,-0.103228725,0.3895751,-0.49162507,-0.9432531,-0.5980949,0.63356507,-0.40455475,0.9550473,0.7282631,-0.031743232,0.439844,0.21040638,-0.36207297,0.22014715,-0.5069794,0.4957589,-0.30554834,-0.8615413,-0.4926672,-0.013558676,-0.041132603,0.65787005,0.30416572,0.18375356,0.6744972,-0.6142544,-0.18229552,-0.11830064,1.0248266,0.2171961,1.0895737,-0.027262354,-0.17439449,0.74050045,-0.8744221,-0.16733684,0.93963474,-0.4188998,-1.1815201,-0.4237022,-1.4382845,0.9899152,-0.17618449,0.8811465,-0.1435171,0.1467631,0.20906292,-0.19986387,-0.07172442,-0.5412453,-0.38141707,-0.8519122,0.57226634,0.27108946,0.47601715,-0.50961906,0.7443681,-0.46236074,0.44012043,-0.64782083,0.12072155,0.17669038,0.8894314,-0.26589298,-1.0005188,-0.38552156,-0.17849512,-0.41564974,0.46785104,0.07669882,0.098340474,-0.40940204,-0.22534837,-0.46240783,-0.6026122,-0.150852,-0.056922164,-0.5217692,0.2522323,-0.05158736,0.4368061,0.07538188,-0.15538858,-0.27512375,-7.942749,-0.5104796,0.3684156,0.17436846,0.33592805,0.30256566,0.3045547,-0.8253086,0.39595905,-0.63918144,0.023157855,-0.19350462,-1.1046336,0.24591433,-0.35902688,-0.80178124,0.60646725,-0.30873522,0.3227124,0.14232452,-0.11611875,0.36796737,-0.53184104,0.30364224,0.28488177,-1.0550518,-0.42094457,-0.12320968,-0.9765126,-0.15129066,0.001331389,-0.27246574,0.4749163,0.4177817,0.2973763,-0.29119635,-0.3972071,0.59532064,0.10756115,0.23748569,-0.70517355,1.201706,0.502714,-0.26869884,-0.053134415,-0.66120774,-0.0039092028,-0.64522946,-0.041144915,-0.05124693,-0.9726303,-0.99400455,-0.07065071,-0.78489596,0.80071807,-0.13281979,-0.006903738,0.5823942,-0.2669629,1.6502038,0.7482211,-0.6007372,0.66805166,-0.3942953,-0.5034327,0.27077916,0.15055649,0.10765681,-0.12882604,0.24207312,0.18053184,-0.21453774,0.45982376,-0.5745059,0.2006089,0.50371104,0.8538735,0.97700334,0.05624181,-0.132805,0.033950403,-0.18651533,-0.06351512,-0.7937849,-0.6627913,-0.3048031,0.53663576,0.17241986,0.36505452,-0.09964923,0.13906284,0.5434706,-0.36837682,-0.35080168,0.46206424,-0.20238751,-0.27848598,0.2480285,0.5826801,-0.48960462,0.7367855,1.0053717,0.17819782,0.38643655,-0.16025475,-0.35159552,-0.0024995431,-0.022663444,0.05895573,-0.19539028,-0.36216947,-0.06652315,-0.13567717,-0.68101376,-0.3490555,0.55224353,0.045317963,-0.8309715,-0.24363773,0.4269611,0.24411823,-0.06477823,0.80422884,0.35045695,0.20747428,-0.3475987,0.1297931,0.09917005,0.007867369,0.38570535,0.13428706,1.3826305,-0.8623333,-1.0942854,0.3748387,-0.5336166,-0.35972998,-0.10899716,0.278379,0.94615966,-0.93360096,-0.9554229,-0.28387132,-0.02770327,-0.9298182,0.45993057,-0.65919405,0.1475371,-0.34568012,1.209977,0.2802038,0.45577803,0.12152732,0.87355286,1.5883585,0.6779906,0.17098032,1.0125086,-0.55774075,-0.38352862,0.16628654,0.15557681,0.1861148,0.04379474,-0.7305415,-0.030636007,0.024982145,0.67828315,0.42840484,-0.053252134,-0.4504099,-0.20452605,-0.1081517,-0.14191566,0.07114916,-0.078530826,0.17243765,-0.46307424,-0.008914786,0.26029265,0.52127206,-0.35917446,-0.015462582,-0.28368863,-0.7689151,-0.263665,0.49229744,0.7343957,0.24539919,-0.2738248,-0.12916541,1.5979353,0.2385032,-0.5589315,0.1753772,-0.57815063,0.13694653,-0.20679545,0.78396624,-0.26194802,0.16952795,0.009313789,0.053571712,-0.50364834,0.19213165,0.020542603,0.3242613,-0.21481745,0.46329287,0.1883949,-0.53527766,0.19803612,-0.10915735,-0.53217936,0.5851483,0.8633852,-0.22306518,0.19917397,-0.48938546,-0.3489624,0.26114023,0.5178694,-0.49423835,0.22051883,0.9698861,-0.023483349,0.5058909,-0.19136174,-0.06710764,-0.50730103,-0.5724341,-0.07458467,0.72695184,0.36962357,0.12050099,0.16827017,-0.36094713,-0.22090997,0.5247373,0.5981514,0.11581371,-0.14274465,0.110738344,0.5218388,-0.38720345,0.9173073,-0.8510778,-0.22613077,-0.2748853,0.2863147,-0.3778913,-0.18058139,0.37012923,-0.5144021,-0.5551922,0.16914673,0.78963786,1.1504575,-0.7211657,-0.63688916,-0.075630635,-0.89228654,0.8719732,-0.16148148,-0.093216084,-0.0649338,0.40419587,-0.5091749,0.3257159,-0.38114238,-0.7489807,-0.14795141,0.070623375,1.0296395,-0.18232572,0.045388192,-0.5071435,-0.23788519,-0.60791194,-0.25087252,0.009456612,0.8095627,-0.43995717,-0.21105917,-0.83442384,0.7455656,-0.9289396,-0.26139355,0.33529952,-0.7209875,0.44793245,-0.11075375,0.35380912,-0.49433497,1.061043,0.24260058,1.277706,-1.0634571,-0.028423825,-0.6881516,-0.2748189,0.32650438,0.22231913,-0.6346664,-0.32749617,0.6449113,0.4030831,0.086880766,-0.34941757,-0.32754892,0.44228384,-1.0537914,-0.4920558,0.11018584,-0.4000114,0.19572248,-0.006614799,-0.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"querystring" : "{!knn f=TEXTEMBEDDINGS_BESCHREIBUNG_768
topK=6}[-0.72818565,-0.41219202,0.5225889,0.53035444,0.76394194,0.7767894,0.82073385,0.95900697,-0.36803666,-0.21959017,0.7140104,-0.13439204,0.06747756,1.3333143,0.2797215,1.3020324,0.13869889,-0.10991136,0.21142228,-0.36915645,-0.15180133,-0.62384933,-0.51568866,0.23904686,-0.61362225,0.026911864,0.36433217,-0.6443799,0.86989623,-0.0058394694,0.360967,-0.39565668,0.4483029,-0.26269752,0.24516392,0.44815013,0.43040967,0.3587644,0.873287,-0.10215642,-0.25633913,-0.21385787,-0.5121543,-0.103228725,0.3895751,-0.49162507,-0.9432531,-0.5980949,0.63356507,-0.40455475,0.9550473,0.7282631,-0.031743232,0.439844,0.21040638,-0.36207297,0.22014715,-0.5069794,0.4957589,-0.30554834,-0.8615413,-0.4926672,-0.013558676,-0.041132603,0.65787005,0.30416572,0.18375356,0.6744972,-0.6142544,-0.18229552,-0.11830064,1.0248266,0.2171961,1.0895737,-0.027262354,-0.17439449,0.74050045,-0.8744221,-0.16733684,0.93963474,-0.4188998,-1.1815201,-0.4237022,-1.4382845,0.9899152,-0.17618449,0.8811465,-0.1435171,0.1467631,0.20906292,-0.19986387,-0.07172442,-0.5412453,-0.38141707,-0.8519122,0.57226634,0.27108946,0.47601715,-0.50961906,0.7443681,-0.46236074,0.44012043,-0.64782083,0.12072155,0.17669038,0.8894314,-0.26589298,-1.0005188,-0.38552156,-0.17849512,-0.41564974,0.46785104,0.07669882,0.098340474,-0.40940204,-0.22534837,-0.46240783,-0.6026122,-0.150852,-0.056922164,-0.5217692,0.2522323,-0.05158736,0.4368061,0.07538188,-0.15538858,-0.27512375,-7.942749,-0.5104796,0.3684156,0.17436846,0.33592805,0.30256566,0.3045547,-0.8253086,0.39595905,-0.63918144,0.023157855,-0.19350462,-1.1046336,0.24591433,-0.35902688,-0.80178124,0.60646725,-0.30873522,0.3227124,0.14232452,-0.11611875,0.36796737,-0.53184104,0.30364224,0.28488177,-1.0550518,-0.42094457,-0.12320968,-0.9765126,-0.15129066,0.001331389,-0.27246574,0.4749163,0.4177817,0.2973763,-0.29119635,-0.3972071,0.59532064,0.10756115,0.23748569,-0.70517355,1.201706,0.502714,-0.26869884,-0.053134415,-0.66120774,-0.0039092028,-0.64522946,-0.041144915,-0.05124693,-0.9726303,-0.99400455,-0.07065071,-0.78489596,0.80071807,-0.13281979,-0.006903738,0.5823942,-0.2669629,1.6502038,0.7482211,-0.6007372,0.66805166,-0.3942953,-0.5034327,0.27077916,0.15055649,0.10765681,-0.12882604,0.24207312,0.18053184,-0.21453774,0.45982376,-0.5745059,0.2006089,0.50371104,0.8538735,0.97700334,0.05624181,-0.132805,0.033950403,-0.18651533,-0.06351512,-0.7937849,-0.6627913,-0.3048031,0.53663576,0.17241986,0.36505452,-0.09964923,0.13906284,0.5434706,-0.36837682,-0.35080168,0.46206424,-0.20238751,-0.27848598,0.2480285,0.5826801,-0.48960462,0.7367855,1.0053717,0.17819782,0.38643655,-0.16025475,-0.35159552,-0.0024995431,-0.022663444,0.05895573,-0.19539028,-0.36216947,-0.06652315,-0.13567717,-0.68101376,-0.3490555,0.55224353,0.045317963,-0.8309715,-0.24363773,0.4269611,0.24411823,-0.06477823,0.80422884,0.35045695,0.20747428,-0.3475987,0.1297931,0.09917005,0.007867369,0.38570535,0.13428706,1.3826305,-0.8623333,-1.0942854,0.3748387,-0.5336166,-0.35972998,-0.10899716,0.278379,0.94615966,-0.93360096,-0.9554229,-0.28387132,-0.02770327,-0.9298182,0.45993057,-0.65919405,0.1475371,-0.34568012,1.209977,0.2802038,0.45577803,0.12152732,0.87355286,1.5883585,0.6779906,0.17098032,1.0125086,-0.55774075,-0.38352862,0.16628654,0.15557681,0.1861148,0.04379474,-0.7305415,-0.030636007,0.024982145,0.67828315,0.42840484,-0.053252134,-0.4504099,-0.20452605,-0.1081517,-0.14191566,0.07114916,-0.078530826,0.17243765,-0.46307424,-0.008914786,0.26029265,0.52127206,-0.35917446,-0.015462582,-0.28368863,-0.7689151,-0.263665,0.49229744,0.7343957,0.24539919,-0.2738248,-0.12916541,1.5979353,0.2385032,-0.5589315,0.1753772,-0.57815063,0.13694653,-0.20679545,0.78396624,-0.26194802,0.16952795,0.009313789,0.053571712,-0.50364834,0.19213165,0.020542603,0.3242613,-0.21481745,0.46329287,0.1883949,-0.53527766,0.19803612,-0.10915735,-0.53217936,0.5851483,0.8633852,-0.22306518,0.19917397,-0.48938546,-0.3489624,0.26114023,0.5178694,-0.49423835,0.22051883,0.9698861,-0.023483349,0.5058909,-0.19136174,-0.06710764,-0.50730103,-0.5724341,-0.07458467,0.72695184,0.36962357,0.12050099,0.16827017,-0.36094713,-0.22090997,0.5247373,0.5981514,0.11581371,-0.14274465,0.110738344,0.5218388,-0.38720345,0.9173073,-0.8510778,-0.22613077,-0.2748853,0.2863147,-0.3778913,-0.18058139,0.37012923,-0.5144021,-0.5551922,0.16914673,0.78963786,1.1504575,-0.7211657,-0.63688916,-0.075630635,-0.89228654,0.8719732,-0.16148148,-0.093216084,-0.0649338,0.40419587,-0.5091749,0.3257159,-0.38114238,-0.7489807,-0.14795141,0.070623375,1.0296395,-0.18232572,0.045388192,-0.5071435,-0.23788519,-0.60791194,-0.25087252,0.009456612,0.8095627,-0.43995717,-0.21105917,-0.83442384,0.7455656,-0.9289396,-0.26139355,0.33529952,-0.7209875,0.44793245,-0.11075375,0.35380912,-0.49433497,1.061043,0.24260058,1.277706,-1.0634571,-0.028423825,-0.6881516,-0.2748189,0.32650438,0.22231913,-0.6346664,-0.32749617,0.6449113,0.4030831,0.086880766,-0.34941757,-0.32754892,0.44228384,-1.0537914,-0.4920558,0.11018584,-0.4000114,0.19572248,-0.006614799,-0.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"parsedquery" :
"KnnVectorQuery(KnnVectorQuery:TEXTEMBEDDINGS_BESCHREIBUNG_768[-0.72818565,...][6])",

"parsedquery_toString" :
"KnnVectorQuery:TEXTEMBEDDINGS_BESCHREIBUNG_768[-0.72818565,...][6]",
"QParser" : "KnnQParser",

Am 17.10.2023 um 10:05 schrieb Alessandro Benedetti:

What's your full Solr query?
Are you on SolrCloud or single Solr node?
--------------------------
*Alessandro Benedetti*
Director @ Sease Ltd.
*Apache Lucene/Solr Committer*
*Apache Solr PMC Member*

e-mail:a.benede...@sease.io


*Sease* - Information Retrieval Applied
Consulting | Training | Open Source

Website: Sease.io<http://sease.io/>
LinkedIn<https://linkedin.com/company/sease-ltd>   | Twitter
<https://twitter.com/seaseltd>   | Youtube
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDx86ZKLYNpI3gzMercM7BQ>   | Github
<https://github.com/seaseltd>


On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 at 09:45, Mirko Sertic<mirko.ser...@web.de>   wrote:


To correct me, there was a typo. I meant:

If I specify topK=6, I get numFound=12, but only some of them match the
top 6


Am 17.10.2023 um 09:31 schrieb Mirko Sertic:

Hi!

To keep you updated, here are some observations regarding the
numFound/resultset size and DenseVectorQueries:

If I specity topK=10, I get numFound=20, but only some of them match

the

top 10

If I specify topK=8, I get numFound=16, but only some of them match the
top 8

If I specify topK=6, I get numFound=8, but only some of them match the
top 6

So the numFound seems always to be the double of topK. Might there be a
correlation with sharding? Our collection has two shards, so does this
double the results? I would't expect that, but that might be the only
thing relating to a constant 2 in our setup.

Mirko


Am 16.10.2023 um 14:46 schrieb Mirko Sertic:

Hi@all

We are using Solr 9.1.1, and are trying usecases with DenseVector

Fields

and knnQueries in mind.

During our tests, we see the following results and are trying to

figure

out what is going on:

a) We use the following main query : {!knn f=VECTOR_FIELD
topK=10}[VECTOR DATA]. We use it as a main query because we want to
apply the distance function to the document score. However, when I try
do debug and explain the search results, I am getting more than

topK=10

result documents, some are marked as match = true with "within top

10",

others are marked as match = false with "not in top 10". I'd expect

that

only matched documents are part of the search result, but there are 20
result documents, but only 5 of them are matched. Did I miss

something?

b) The knn query results are the approximate nearest neighbors, but

they

might not be the best. We'd like to define some kind of cut-off value
for knn document scores. Is this possible, and what would be a good

day

to do so? Implement a post-processing filter query with an frange on

the

score field?

Thank you all,

Mirko























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