On Jan 3, 2014 4:08 AM, "Lars E. Pettersson" <l...@homer.se> wrote: > > On 01/03/2014 05:07 AM, Pete Travis wrote: >> >> I think there was some misunderstanding here. If you can't find your >> cronjob output in the journal, *your* cron is broken. > > > Default installation: > > [root@tux ~]# rpm -V cronie > [root@tux ~]# rpm -q cronie > cronie-1.4.11-4.fc20.x86_64 > [root@tux ~]# rpm -V crontabs > [root@tux ~]# rpm -q crontabs > crontabs-1.11-7.20130830git.fc20.noarch > > >> Before I get too >> far in, in my opinion, mails are good for notification, voluminous >> content should be in the logs that the mail notifies about. The journal >> is good at logs. > > > Mail has no problem handling voluminous content. It is also very easy to retrieve without knowing quite a lot of strange options to a command that you have to print in a terminal. >
Yes, we know you prefer mail... Mail on the command line is exactly what you describe - it requires knowing esoteric command line options to an awkward terminal application. Two unfamiliar and clunky terminal applications for the purpose would be redundant, so one is gone. > >> $ journalctl SYSLOG_IDENTIFIER=CROND -f #filtered for convenience > > > Where is my output from yum-cron (yum-cron is run hourly and it has a fault at the moment due to spots Chrome repository not yet being up to Fedora 20)? > > [root@tux ~]# journalctl SYSLOG_IDENTIFIER=CROND --since=-2h > -- Logs begin at Tue 2013-07-02 20:53:56 CEST, end at Fri 2014-01-03 11:40:01 CE > Jan 03 09:50:01 tux CROND[3666]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 10:00:01 tux CROND[3895]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 10:01:01 tux CROND[4044]: (root) CMD (run-parts /etc/cron.hourly) > Jan 03 10:10:01 tux CROND[4358]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 10:20:01 tux CROND[5345]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 10:30:01 tux CROND[5521]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 10:40:01 tux CROND[5790]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 10:50:01 tux CROND[6135]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 11:00:01 tux CROND[6388]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 11:01:01 tux CROND[6541]: (root) CMD (run-parts /etc/cron.hourly) > Jan 03 11:10:01 tux CROND[6763]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 11:20:01 tux CROND[6963]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 11:30:01 tux CROND[7380]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > Jan 03 11:40:01 tux CROND[7681]: (root) CMD (/usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 1) > I see " CMD (run-parts /etc/cron.hourly", that could be where the magic happens. Maybe the output will show up with other filters, or it could be rewritten to use systemd-cat. > >> But wait! These things could get all mixed up on a busy machine, you >> say! Let's take a closer look at a message: >> >> MESSAGE=(pete) CMDOUT (New Things are Different.) > > [lots of lines removed] >> >> SYSLOG_IDENTIFIER=CROND >> _CMDLINE=/usr/sbin/CROND -n >> _BOOT_ID=0557929cbde247928f945d8b53a6e067 > > > How is non technical user supposed to understand this? What command sequence did you use to get that output? > A non-technical user would either understand by example - the part you cut out - or, they are a nontechnical user and have no interest in such things . > >> $ journalctl SYSLOG_IDENTIFIER=CROND _AUDIT_SESSION=83 -b > > > How do you find out the _AUDIT_SESSION to use? > I didn't guess. There was a straightforward and easy to follow example, but you removed it. > >> Stop! I don't want all that extra information, you say! `journalctl` >> should KNOW I'm not interested in the timestamp, or the hostname, or the >> name and PID of the reporting binary - just give me the message! >> >> journalctl SYSLOG_IDENTIFIER=CROND _AUDIT_SESSION=83 -o cat >> (pete) CMD (LARSHAPPY="no"; if [[ "$LARSHAPPY" == "no" ]]; then echo -e >> "<This isn't the same.\nNew Th >> (pete) CMDOUT (This isn't the same.) >> (pete) CMDOUT (New Things are Different.) >> (pete) CMDOUT (Some people like the old thing.) > > > That is several messages. I want only one... So what? If your entire complaint is "it isn't a mail" then send the mail and be done. > > How am I notified that I should look in the journal when things go wrong? (With mail I am notified and also get the "log" lines all at once) > How is a nontechnical desktop user notified of new mail? That's rhetorical, don't answer. They aren't . > >> I'll agree that this isn't as *simple* as banging out a four letter word >> and reading message, but the journal can provide context, too. > > > I am not arguing whether the journal is good or not, I am arguing whether removing the MTA used to send mail, sent from some applications, is good or bad. As I see it, as long as some applications do send mail, we have to have a MTA. Or at least let those applications have a requirement of a MTA so that the MTA is installed when those applications are installed on the system. That is my key argument, not that the journal is bad. > > The journal is OK, but very hard for a non technical user to use. What is needed is probably a very good graphical frontend that hides all these strange things you show us in your mail. How is a non technical user supposed to understand all this? > OK, then, your argument is late and pointless. Appeal to fesco if you feel strongly about adding sendmail to the default installation, such decisions are not made on the user support list. > >> You're putting lots of effort into complaining about a hugely useful >> tool, and apparently little into learning about it. If the complaint is >> about cronjobs, start here: > > > I am not complaining about the journal. But please let us know where to find a "journal for dummies" text where we can find out how to become journal experts. The man page is a bit sparse on information. > > >> Of course, if you like the old way, you can just install and configure >> an MTA. > > > I have to as long as some applications use that path to send messages to me. The same thing goes for all others installing these applications. Without a MTA these messages are lost in bit space. > > > Lars > -- More "I like using mail" ranting here. That's fine, use mail. I just wanted to point out how to use the journal, so I'm done here. --Pete
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