Hi all,
Given 3.9 is the latest version before a major, and 4.0.0 comes with
breaking changes (Zookeeper removal, Scala and Java version drops...) I
think it's fair to assume that a considerable subset of Kafka users will be
using 3.9 for a little longer than we usually support versions (roughly 1
year). I would be in favour of considering 3.9 as and LTS and offer support
for, let's say 18 to 24 months.
In that spirit, I would be in favour of releasing a future 3.9 version that
can run with JDK 23.

Best,

On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:46 AM Chia-Ping Tsai <chia7...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> It seems the main question is whether we should consider version 3.9 as an
> LTS release. For example, will we continue with versions like 3.9.1, 3.9.2,
> ... 3.9.100?
>
> If yes, we should backport both KIP-1006 and support for future JDKs.
>
> If not, backporting KIP-1006 to 3.9 would be sufficient to fix the issue of
> running version 3.9 under JDK 23, even if JDK 23 is still not officially
> supported by 3.9.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Chia-Ping
>
>
>
> Greg Harris <greg.har...@aiven.io.invalid> 於 2024年11月21日 週四 上午4:37寫道:
>
> > > Has the SecurityManager been fully removed in JDK 23?
> > > What is the effect of running Kafka 3.9.0 with JDK 23?
> >
> > The SecurityManager has been degraded, so by default our users experience
> > an UnsupportedOperationException. They can work-around this by setting a
> > system property.
> > In JRE 24, JEP-486 [1] has removed this workaround, so an unpatched 3.9.x
> > will experience an UnsupportedOperationException unconditionally.
> >
> > > I see https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-17638
> > > which explicitly adds JDK 23 to our CI with a fix version of 4.0.0.
> Lack
> > of
> > > support for JDK 23 in 3.9.x is not a bug, it is what we planned (as far
> > as
> > > I can tell).
> >
> > Originally we were planning to get this change into 3.9.0, but we missed
> > the merge deadline. I opened that ticket afterwards to be fixed in 4.0.0
> > because that's the next release.
> > The patch was always intended to be backportable, and I intended to
> > backport it [2].
> >
> > I understand that if we consider Java 23 support to be a feature (which
> is
> > the standing decision), this is a pretty obvious case of missing feature
> > freeze, and the current course of action (releasing in 4.0.0) is how we
> > would handle it.
> > I'm asking for this to be reconsidered as a bug fix, because it allows us
> > to backport the change, which is what our users are asking for [3].
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Greg
> >
> > [1] https://openjdk.org/jeps/486
> > [2] https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/16522#issuecomment-2377340024
> > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/312lm617q05k87kxsrwlqhk8rfg29t7g
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 11:50 AM David Arthur <mum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Greg,
> > >
> > > I have not been following this closely, so apologies for some basic
> > > questions.
> > >
> > > Has the SecurityManager been fully removed in JDK 23?
> > >
> > > What is the effect of running Kafka 3.9.0 with JDK 23?
> > >
> > > By "4.0 breaking changes" do you mean changes to our JDK/Scala
> supported
> > > versions, removal or ZK, Kafka API changes, or something else?
> > >
> > > In general, I do not think we should change our supported JDK versions
> > in a
> > > hotfix release. I see
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-17638
> > > which explicitly adds JDK 23 to our CI with a fix version of 4.0.0.
> Lack
> > of
> > > support for JDK 23 in 3.9.x is not a bug, it is what we planned (as far
> > as
> > > I can tell).
> > >
> > > Also, I feel that we should not add too much to 3.9.x aside from actual
> > > bugs. If we backport things into 3.9.x, it will slow adoption of 4.x
> and
> > > increase our maintenance burden over time.
> > >
> > > Just my $0.02
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > David A
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 12:22 PM Greg Harris
> > <greg.har...@aiven.io.invalid
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Now that 3.9.0 is released and 4.0.x is progressing, I'd like to
> > > understand
> > > > everyone's expectations about the 3.9.x branch, and ask for a
> specific
> > > > consensus on Java 23 support.
> > > >
> > > > Some context that I think is relevant to the discussion:
> > > > * KIP-1006 [1] proposes a backwards-compatible strategy for handling
> > the
> > > > ongoing removal of the SecurityManager, which is merged and due to
> > > release
> > > > in 4.0.0 [2].
> > > > * KIP-1012 [3] rejected ongoing parallel feature development on a 3.x
> > > > branch while having trunk on 4.x.
> > > > * During the 3.9.0 release, the patch [2] was rejected [4] due to
> > being a
> > > > new feature which did not meet the feature freeze deadline.
> > > > * Other than the SecurityManager removal, there are additional PRs
> > which
> > > > would also need to be backported for full Java 23 support [5]
> > including a
> > > > Scala patch upgrade.
> > > > * Downstream users are asking for a backport [6] because adding
> support
> > > for
> > > > Java 23 would obligate them to also include the 4.0 breaking changes.
> > > >
> > > > So while adding Java version support in the past has been a KIP-less
> > > > feature and normally only appears in the next version, it happens to
> > > align
> > > > with a major version bump this time. This will cause additional pain
> > for
> > > > users if we do not elect to backport this.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1006%3A+Remove+SecurityManager+Support
> > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/16522
> > > > [3]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1012%3A+The+need+for+a+Kafka+3.8+and+3.9+release
> > > > [4] https://lists.apache.org/thread/xy5rwd1w274qgpwf3qxxnzlqpoly5d4p
> > > > [5] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-17638
> > > > [6]
> https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/16522#issuecomment-2488340682
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > David Arthur
> > >
> >
>


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