Hi Blake,
thanks for sharing your experience, I am also not the biggest Eclipse
fan, though I found it not too bad as a Java IDE a while back.
It is funny that you should mention Netbeans - I had nearly forgotten
about it*, but I actually had the same as experience as you did with
Netbeans: It was very intuitive, besides Java (and C++) had great
Javascript support out of the box (whereas Eclipse sucked at this,
whatever plugin I tried), and in general the fact that it did not put
you in plugin hell and was not based on a "generic editor for
everything" base appealed to me. Alas Groovy support was severly
outdated/lacking a few years back when I evaluated our IDE options -
does anyone have any recent experiences on what the status of Netbeans
is with regards to Groovy support ?
Cheers,
mg
*Partially because other (Java only) teams in my organization are using
Eclipse, and it is always like "Why do you guys need IntelliJ then ?" -
to which the answer of course used to be "Because it has unparalleled
Groovy support"....
On 11/03/2020 19:36, Blake McBride wrote:
Hi MG,
The issues I've had with IntelliJ/JetBrains are general. IntelliJ is
probably the best IDE out there but rather than make it even better
they seem comfortable just staying a notch above the competition. I
guess they don't have to do better.
I've had issues with IntelliJ that are utterly and clearly wrong but
they say it is a "feature".
Other times I spend hours trying to get IntelliJ to do something that
ends up hidden deep in the bowels of IntelliJ rather than putting them
where someone would look for them. This causes hours of wasted time,
immense frustration, and needless contact with their support.
While their support is very responsive, they're too quick to
dismiss nearly every issue.
Often a clear bug is discovered but their attitude is that not enough
people use that feature so we're not going to fix it. This attitude
has been a big problem and might also be a factor in the Groovy issue.
Another thing that comes to mind, JetBrains produces Kotlin, and
Kotlin competes with Groovy - figure that one out!
I've always thought that NetBeans was the most intuitive IDE. Anytime
I want to do something I guess at where it is and - boom - there it
is! I also see they're really making an effort to upgrade it. I'll
be watching them.
IntelliJ, like most build systems, has a convention over configuration
attitude. While this works really really well when you are building a
conventional app, with either, when you try to drift the
slightest from the convention (with good reason!) a five-minute setup
can turn into weeks and constant headaches!! In order to get around
IntelliJ's and other build system's (Maven, Gradle, etc.) conventions,
I ended up writing my own build system. Problem is, I still need an
IDE for developing and debugging. I try not to use them for builds.
With regard to eclipse, personally, I've never worked with a worse IDE
than eclipse. eclipse:
1. the most unintuitive IDE I've ever used
2. the most buggy IDE I've ever used
3. the most out-of-date IDE I've ever used
4. the least supported IDE I've ever used
I've had a lot better luck with NetBeans!
A number of years ago I embarked, with a team, on a large Java
project. We started with eclipse. We had endless memory issues and
crashes. We then switched to NetBeans and used it without
incident for years. I eventually switched to IntelliJ because of a
promised feature. I spent a lot of time moving this project (10,000
classes!) to IntelliJ only to find that the promised feature is
extremely buggy. When I reported the problems JetBrains told me that
not enough people used the feature and they are no longer supporting it.
While IntelliJ's support of Kotlin will no doubt remain first-class,
my inclination is that Groovy will experience declining support by
JetBrains for the above reasons. Moving forward, you may have better
luck with NetBeans.
[rant over]
Thanks.
Blake
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 12:33 PM MG <mg...@arscreat.com
<mailto:mg...@arscreat.com>> wrote:
Hi Blake,
first of all thank you, and all who voted since my post, for
taking the time, appreciated.
Second: Is your IntelliJ/Jetbrains experience directly tied to
Groovy or to issues in general ? The guy responsible for Groovy in
IntelliJ, Daniil Ovchinnikov, seems to need community created,
upvoted child tasks:
see for instance his comment on the "Support for Groovy 3 syntax"
issue on 5 Dec 2018 17:07:
"@Pradeep Bhardwaj don't worry, the work is in progress. Most of
Groovy 3 features are already supported, please see child tasks
and vote for some (or all) of them."
In any case upvoting is the only thing we can easily do. If this
has no effect, my team will have to look into the Eclipse option
again - great, after we convinced management that paying for
IntelliJ was the way to go :-/
mg
On 11/03/2020 17:50, Blake McBride wrote:
Although I will vote up the Groovy issue you detail, being a
long-time IntelliJ user, I can tell you first hand that upvoting
an issue at JetBrains has no effect I am aware of. I have seen
critical issues get hundreds of votes and remain untouched for
years. They do what, when, and how they like.
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 11:27 AM MG <mg...@arscreat.com
<mailto:mg...@arscreat.com>> wrote:
Hi guys,
up to this point, the first issue I created two days ago (see
previous
post for link) has gotten zero votes - if no one is voting
for these
issues, then it makes no sense for me to put them up, so
please do not
only vote for the umbrella issue (which just got vote 37 - still
incredibly low given the large number of Groovy users out
there), but
for each individual issue as well.
Consider to not only vote for the features you yourself would
immediately use - all of these features were included after some
discussion, because they were considederd to make Groovy a
better
language, and some things need time to establish themselves,
but there
is no chance of that happening, if the most prevalent Groovy
IDE marks
the code as invalid and accordingly offers no
Intellisense/refactoring/etc support*.
Cheers,
mg
*I keep wondering what people new to Groovy think, if they
try to use a
feature introduced nearly 2 years ago, but their IDE marks it
as invalid
code...
