Its fair to say the management spec effort lost its steam right around the time of those later drafts, so I doubt anything truly implements it. I know Qpid Broker-J definitely implements earlier AMQP Management drafts, say from 8+ years ago. I dont really recall what differed in later drafts of the management spec at this point, its close to 5 years since then and I wasnt that involved on the management stuff anyway. Qpid Dispatch router also uses an earlier AMQP-Management like interface for all its management tools, but again not really the later draft, and I similarly dont know much detail there.
Most servers these days seem to simply allow pre-defining things, or auto-creating things (user favourite), or using naming conventions for specific functionality, or have other message-based / http-based / jmx-based management interfaces for more nuanced cases, or most often all of the above. Theres also the implicit subscription style handling from 'jms topic-like nodes' that just handle many users cases, i.e they dont actually need to create specific queues as its done for them in the background. There have definitely been the occasional questions about more specific client-side management, quite often from 0-x model users used to it because the 0-x model essentially encouraged it. I initially thought you were one such user just asking how to do such things with Artemis hehe. On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 17:47, David Ansari <david.ans...@broadcom.com.invalid> wrote: > > Hi Robbie, > > Thanks a lot for your detailed reply. > You already answered most of my questions. > Are you aware of any AMQP 1.0 broker that implements the latest AMQP > Management draft spec from 2019 ( > https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/65575/amqp-man-v1.0-wd16.docx > )? > > It seems neither Azure Service Bus nor QPid implement it: > > Service Bus doesn't currently implement any of the core features of the > > management specification > > > https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/service-bus-messaging/service-bus-amqp-protocol-guide#amqp-management > <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/service-bus-messaging/service-bus-amqp-protocol-guide#amqp-management> > > The AMQP protocols 0-8..0-10 allow for some management of Exchanges, Queue > > and Bindings. This will be superseded by AMQP 1.0 Management. It is > > suggested that new users favour the Management facilities provided by the > > Web Console/REST API. > > > https://qpid.apache.org/releases/qpid-broker-j-9.1.0/book/Java-Broker-Management-Channel.html > > > Using custom "management messages" as done in Artemis is probably a good > approach for Artemis to support management operations over multiple > protocols. > The disadvantage is that there doesn't seem to be a standardization between > different AMQP 1.0 clients and AMQP 1.0 servers on how to perform > management operations. > It seems while the idea of the draft AMQP management extension is great, > I'm not aware of any AMQP 1.0 broker implementing it. > > I mainly ask because we are looking for "the best" (i.e a simple and > interoperable) approach to dynamically create and delete queues, exchanges, > and bindings via the AMQP 1.0 protocol in RabbitMQ. > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 1:41 PM Robbie Gemmell <robbie.gemm...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > The invite I'll need to leave to someone else... > > > > > > I'm not sure what your questions are, but Artemis does not implement > > the "AMQP Management Version 1.0" extension though. I believe it was > > only ever at working-draft stage, i.e there is actually no Version 1.0 > > yet really, and I dont think there has been any activity around it in > > a number of years now. > > > > None of that is to say you can't manage Artemis over messaging using > > AMQP though, just not that particular "AMQP Management" draft > > extension. > > > > > > https://activemq.apache.org/components/artemis/documentation/latest/management.html > > has some details around using 'management messages' to manage the > > broker. Although the doc is more aimed at the Core client originally, > > the same general message-based request and [temporary] reply-to queue > > response-message based approach is generally applicable to the other > > protocols the broker supports as well like AMQP. > > > > There is a management example that uses the JMS API client that can > > presumably be adapted: > > > > https://github.com/apache/activemq-artemis-examples/blob/6958316d39b01f67add3c2f90a1bf75f62c39020/examples/features/standard/management/src/main/java/org/apache/activemq/artemis/jms/example/ManagementExample.java > > > > There is a test that does some basic management over AMQP using the > > codebase own AMQP test client, ultimately doing the same basic thing > > as the documentation covers and the JMS client example did: > > > > https://github.com/apache/activemq-artemis/blob/2.32.0/tests/integration-tests/src/test/java/org/apache/activemq/artemis/tests/integration/amqp/AmqpManagementTest.java#L49 > > > > I recall an old codebase using this same general approach via a > > javascript AMQP client years ago: > > > > https://github.com/EnMasseProject/enmasse/blob/0.34.0-rc2/agent/lib/artemis.js > > > > > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 08:19, David Ansari > > <david.ans...@broadcom.com.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I have a couple of questions on how Artemis implements the AMQP > > Management > > > Version 1.0 extension. > > > Could you send me an invite to your Slack, please, so that I can ask my > > > questions there? > > > > > > Thank you > > > David > > > > > > -- > > > This electronic communication and the information and any files > > transmitted > > > with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for > > > the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may > > contain > > > information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by > > privacy > > > laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. 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