Larry Meadors wrote:
LOL, Jon, do you read your own posts?
On 3/28/06, Jonathan Revusky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Do keep your eye on the ball, Paul. These people have had every chance
to respond to my points via legitimate debate and they chose not to.
OK, so what you are saying here is that "these people" could have
debated with you, but instead chose not to...but of course you only
say this after a personal attack.
[sigh]
I reiterate: the people engaging in personal attacks had the option of
debating and chose the ad-hominem route.
And then they start this stuff. Yet you are trying to extract some kind
of moral equivalence out of this.
...then follow it with another...
Well, maybe you got ruined by being exposed to too much moral relativism
and other sophistry in college.
The above is not a personal attack. It is within the range of legitimate
rhetoric. Paul really seemed to see moral equivalence between me and the
people engaging in the vicious attacks -- consider James Mitchell, who
was posting a private message in public in order to fan the flames.
...and another.
This is my last post on this thread, before returning home from bizzarro world.
I see two courses of action for you Jon:
If you think struts is so bad that it is unfixable, then find
something else.
The Struts developers themselves decided that the code was quite
inferior and did find something else. Webwork. They convinced the
Webwork people to donate their code as the basis of Struts Action 2.
The Struts 1.x codebase is basically being abandoned.
Leave us all here to wallow in our ambivalent
ignorance. Then, if you are right, when and if we ever get as smart as
you are and realize that struts is dead, you can charge us all for
training on the Next Big Thing.
If you think struts is bad, but that it is fixable, then do something
about it.
Larry, you seem to have a basic misconception. If somebody engages in
political speech that criticizes some situation, they do not
automatically take on an obligation to remedy the situation themselves.
Usually they are not in a position to do so. For example, in the
appropriate context, someone can perfectly well criticize the situation
in Iraq and bad decisions made there. They could argue that Rumsfeld and
even Bush should resign over this. Do you think such blunt talk on this
creates an obligation for the speaker to go to Iraq himself and sort out
the mess?
What your counterargument is like is like telling that person to go to
Iraq and remedy the situation himself. It's asinine. Also, it is absurd
to suggest that I go to work to remedy the Struts 1.x codebase when the
actual Struts developers have basically abandoned this codebase.
Meanwhile, I have made some substantial contributions to the java web
application space. And I intend to continue to do so. So I cannot be
classified someone who just makes noise and does not contribute
technically. However, what contributions I make will be in the context
of an open source community that I do not consider to be dysfunctional,
like this one. I will be continuing a collaboration with people that I
like and who share some of my basic attitudes and values. For example,
in the FreeMarker community people there are not afraid to disagree with
me in public. Go check it out. Isn't that radical? (This is a place
where people are terrified to express disagreement. They even openly
speculate that there will be retaliation against their careers and so
on. This scene is seriously FUBAR!)
In closing, Larry, who are you to be telling me that I should be doing
this, that or the other thing? Have you made any comparable contribution
to this application space?
Jonathan Revusky
--
lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
P.S. Amusingly, I initially entitled this post "Debate and Free Speech
for Dummies". Then I realized that some of the blowhards would likely
accuse me of insulting everybody -- pretending that they didn't
understand that it was an allusion to the XXX for Dummies book series.
So I changed it "for Dummies" to 101 at the last minute before sending it.
Check it out of SVN, fix it, and use it. If you are so darn
smart, we will all be begging to use it in no time. ...and again, you
can charge us all for training on that Next Big Thing.
But in either case, stop being such a buttmonkey (if you can).
Larry
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