On 3/24/06, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's a people thing, Larry. It's really the same reason most of us > came here in the first place. We came here because we believe that we > can build a better framework working together than we can working > apart. Likewise, we believe that we can build both a better Shale and > a better Action by working together, than we could working apart. If > you tune into the dev@ list, you can see this already happening.
That's great Ted, I hope we can all continue on the same path, but I disagree about the reason people come here. I wish that you were right, but deep down, if people were totally honest, I'd bet 90% came looking for a simple web framework, not a community. > I think the crux of the problem is that users perceive Struts as a > codebase, a product, some kind of car that we built. The committers > perceive Struts as a community of developers. The users don't - it is a product, they download it and use it, and at this point (as one of the users), I don't know where to start. The community is great, but I can't download it, and at this point, it seems very fragmented. > In the commercial world, pointy-haired bosses try very hard to take > individual developers out of the equation. Bosses want developers to > be plug and play, like network cards. I agree, and as much as it pains me to say it, I can see their point. It should be easy to find a struts developer...but it ISN'T! Because struts is so fragmented now that it is several different tool sets. > In the ASF world, we value people more than we value the code. Code > is just a snapshot of the work our people do. The code may be golden > eggs, but our focus is on the geese. > > So when people talk about sending some of us packing, it tears my > heart. These people are my friends. I like working with my friends. > It's one of the reasons I volunteer. And, I know if we stick together, > we will find more and more places where we can share work, and make > life easier for all the developers that use our products (including > ourselves). I totally agree. > We already see sharing and reuse happening with Tiles, Commons Chain, > and Spring. Now we are seeting it happen with XWork. I think that > before we are done, we may be able to take virtually the same Action > and use it in Shale or in Action 2. Hm, that sounds awesome, but as a pessimistic user, I'll believe it when I see it. ;-) > People who think like PHBs want everything to be about brand and > product differentiation. But, that's not what we are trying to do > here. We are trying to level the playing field for the developer. Not > for the product managers, or for the larger entities. But for our own > selves. Are you calling me a PHB?!? ;-) In all seriousness, I think I agree with you more than I disagree with you. I even agree that we an do more together that we can alone. But, I think the users of the framework are confused by the lack of separation. While it is great that the devs can share code and ideas, it is darn confusing for the users to go looking for a Porsche, and end up getting a VW. Larry --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
