> The problem is not with JSF itself, but the way the Struts team has divided > itself > into competing camps. JSF and Struts are competing because their > approaches are orthogonal; it doesn't make any sense to do both > unless you are on a migration path. ... > I think Struts does have a future, but I believe there needs > to be honesty about the competition here. Struts DOES COMPETE against > JSF and Shale, and putting these competitors into one mailing list > will definitely bring out the passion on both sides.
I think one mark of a committer and PMC member is that we don't have those type of passions. There are three of four of those passionate types on this thread. But none of them are committers. And, out of the thousands of people who subscribe to this list, it's the same three or four people who complain, over and over again. (What's is the sound of one hand clapping?) Committers tend to be pragmatic people who are just trying to earn our living building applications that work. We aren't trying to be an expert committee that decides what everyone else should be doing. We're just trying to solve our own problems and share the solutions. Like every working engineer, sometimes we get to choose what technologies we use. Sometimes the technologies choose us. Right now, I don't need to use JSF. Six months from now, I might. And should that day come, I'll be very glad that both my old and new friends have been cranking out Shale code that I will be able to use. And since we are on the same dev list, it's easy for me to keep up with what we are doing with Shale, even if I don't need to use it at work today. Duty now for the future! It's a little bit like saying that because my brother likes the Titans and I like the Falcons, one of us has to move, since we couldn't possibly live under one roof, and share our love for football. Sure there are some people who can't put aside their fanatism, and who insist on arguing about things that in five or six years won't matter. But, those people are not the Struts committers. At the Apache Software Foundation, we take the long view. A couple of years ago is was JSTL. Now is JSF. In a few more years, it will be something else. And, when those new years come, I very much hope that all the committers we have here now will still be at my side, helping each other out, collaborating, and sharing the wealth. Just as we do today. As for this thread, I've said all that I have to say, several times over. I won't say anything more. If some people don't understand our position, that's fine. A lot of people don't understand the Apache Culture. But, if someone doesn't understand us, please don't assume we are anything other than what we appear to be. A gaggle of engineeers trying to solve our own problems in a cooperative, collaborative way. That's what we were six years ago, and that's what we will be six years from now. -Ted. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
