Okay, okay, Reumann. Do you want to be right or do you want to be loving? ///;-) Xu really is not all that atuned to computer stuff, even though he is a computer journalist, so you might take him on as your grasshopper? ///;-)
On 7/5/05, Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John Henry Xu wrote the following on 7/2/2005 6:43 AM: > > > Is writting > > lots of getters and setters manually the most productive way in real > > projects? > > You keep coming back to this getters and setters thing:) Like I said any > editor (even vim:) can create getters and setters. I take it you think > Struts is all about getters and setters? Seriously, don't take offense > to this, but I'm wondering how many Struts applications you actually > coded? I usually have several ActionForms and some beans which do have > get/set methods. The beans (value objects/dto's) I'd have even if I was > coding an application in Swing/.NET or whatever. So your main thrust > here seems to be about ActionForms and get/set methods? Honestly that's > such a small part of the whole process I still can't believe you are > harping on it. I think we can terminate listening to your posts because > of this statement: > > "My experience was Struts have more > codes and configuration files than straight forward JSP+Javabean+taglibs > approach that was done before." > > This tells me either: > > A) You haven't used Struts much > > OR > > C) The applications you write using your home-grown approach have to be > quite sucky and would be a royal pain to maintain and refactor as > requirements change. > > I make this claim because Struts (and other web application frameworks) > provide ALREADY WRITTEN CODE in jars that you'd have to write YOURSELF > if you didn't use a framework. So, to quote you, - more lines mean more > time and a waste of money. So under your own logic you are costing your > company a TON of money and you might want to think about adopting some > web framework for your developers to start using. > > I can get into all the little things web frameworks provide, but here > are some simple questions I have for you that maybe you can answer from > 'your experience'... > > Where do your forms submit to? > > How do you handle/configure where the page forwards to after the request > is sent? > > When you need to change the flow of the application (what page forwards > to where) how do you make this change? > > How do you handle server side validation problems and display messages > to the user about these server side problems? > > If you handled ANY of the above than I will GUARANTEE you that I can > take your SAME application, and not change any of your business logic, > and end up with code that is CLEANER and, most importantly from your > perspective, written in LESS lines. > > I truly truly would love for you to zip up a sample of one of your web > applications and let us check out this 'smaller' code base. Please do > it. Pretty please. > > I'm sorry if I sound a bit hostile, but I've had this 'argument' with so > many people over the years. They say stuff like "I don't see why use > (insert your favorite web framework), you just complicate things and end > up with more code and configuration files." Then what happens is I see > their code and see all the wasted stuff they are doing that a web > framework provides 'out of the box.' I think the problem is these people > don't see how the framework saves time because they haven't worked with. > > Do these frameworks have problems? Yes, they do. I'm not a fan of > ActionForms myself, but I do see their place in the Struts world. JSF > seems to have gotten rid of them. Some frameworks the learning curve > looks too steep for me to invest the time in it (Spring's UI framework > seemed to be one of these back in the day when I first considered it... > the docs sucked). Others out there seem good, but I'm just too > comfortable with Struts to make the change. I can whip out a quality web > app using Struts and iBATIS in practically no time at all. Granted, yes, > Struts has a learning curve, but once you learn it you can apply it to > any app or other apps that are coded with it. Conversely, if we take > your "JSP+Javabean+taglibs only" application it will be much more > difficult for a new person to the application to understand (again, you > are all about saving money so I'm not sure how you can't see how your > home-grown approach will cost you more in the long run). > > -- > Rick > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back." ~Dakota Jack~ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
