<SNIP> On Apr 1, 2005 3:07 PM, Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Frank W. Zammetti wrote the following on 4/1/2005 3:48 PM: I think it's quite low to state that: '(Craig has) taken > every opportunity to tell everyone that JSF is in fact "the future."' > this is an untrue statement - I think he's been nothing but fair in all > of his presentations of the subject and if he takes "every" opportunity > like you say he does, how come I bet I can pull out of the archives a > bunch of recent posts where that is not the case? .... > You really think Craig is going "Hmm this product really stinks > but I'm going to tell the Struts community that trusts me that the > product is great so I can make some money." </SNIP>
Usually a principal involved with a product and having a lot to do with basic decisions in its development is not a frequent critic of that product as being second-rate and usually such a principal is both not promoting a competitor and trying to take the name for the competitor. No one is after Craig. He is a bit jammed up in his position and he chose to be there. We don't have to worry about Craig. We also don't have to be stupid lemmings. <SNIP> > Yes > Craig's word should hold some weight with us, and in a time of fast > paced changing technologies no one has time to evaluate EVERY solution > out there. Just count the number of web frameworks already in existence > other than Struts. It's not fair to basically condemn certain people for > possibly going along with JSF, or at least looking into it, because > Craig is behind it. </SNIP> This is hardly fast paced. One would think that JSF were new or a couple months old. This is ancient by Internet standards. JSF predates other now established applications by far. <SNIP> > Also, I think it's good that JSF is being pushed and marketed as a > standard (even though I admit I haven't even looked into enough to make > an honest evaluation of it). It doesn't need to be adopted by everyone, > but it's something the J2EE world needs. </SNIP> To even remotely connect JSF and J2EE is like connecting HTML and J2EE, in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with a Struts advocate stating a negative point of view on JSF on a Struts list. What is odd is having a JSF advocate trash Struts constantly on the Struts lists. I have to stand 100% beside Frank on this one. I really think that you cannot make any sort of a judgment without knowing what JSF is and what it is is half the trouble. <SNIP> > I can't blame companies for > choosing .NET. Just look at recent posts on this mailing list. People > claiming they have a million different better ways of doing things and > they should choose to do X with the RequestProcessor and add this > package and combine it with this technology etc. </SNIP> That is normal. <SNIP> > I love all the open > source solutions available and think it's fun to play around, but > companies also need to make business decisions to make a profit and > hence have to choose solutions they know that they can find employees to > code and maintain. Too many different, equally viable, solutions can > actually be a bad thing. I wish some in the open source community would > actually focus on creating more products to sell. I can't tell you how > many cool little open source software applications I've installed on > Linux only to find out later when some bugs creaped up that the one or > two developers gave up working on the project. When people are making a > profit on a product they will continue to support it and continue to > make it better. Profit and competition are good things for everyone. </SNIP> Lord! We make up entire frameworks on our own with out own tools and autocode with a small shop. We were using CoR seriously in 1999 with autogenerated code, including the database code. I don't find any of this all that challenging. This is not exactly rocket science. I have no problem with the diversity. I think that Sun is making an error following NET rather than leading the way with a truly new web-MVC product. They should hire Rod Johnson and whomever he wants to work with and let him go to town doing something that will stand the test of time. Short term solutions, in my experience have short term lives. I would have no problem at all with JSF if it were not here, in Struts, pretending to have something to do with us when it is in fact completely contrary to everything Struts does and has stood for. That is the problem. It is not a problem with JSF. It is a problem with a strategy that has come from Craig. He is the author of the difficulty in order to take advantage of the Struts branding. He has not been shy about that. If you want to do that, then you get the predictable flack and it is really, in my opinion, a poor strategy, not even really a good tactic. But, don't blame Frank for something Craig chooses to do. I have oodles and oodles of respect for Craig and all the other participants here. But, the King has no clothes: Frank is right about that. Jack -- "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back." ~Dakota Jack~ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
