Hi Matthias, Thank you for following up on this. +1 to officially deprecate Mesos in the code and documentation, too. It will be confusing for users if this diverges from the roadmap.
Cheers, Konstantin On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 12:23 PM Matthias Pohl <matth...@ververica.com> wrote: > Hi everyone, > considering the upcoming release of Flink 1.13, I wanted to revive the > discussion about the Mesos support ones more. Mesos is also already listed > as deprecated in Flink's overall roadmap [1]. Maybe, it's time to align the > documentation accordingly to make it more explicit? > > What do you think? > > Best, > Matthias > > [1] https://flink.apache.org/roadmap.html#feature-radar > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 9:40 AM Till Rohrmann <trohrm...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > Hi Oleksandr, > > > > yes you are right. The biggest problem is at the moment the lack of test > > coverage and thereby confidence to make changes. We have some e2e tests > > which you can find here [1]. These tests are, however, quite coarse > grained > > and are missing a lot of cases. One idea would be to add a Mesos e2e test > > based on Flink's end-to-end test framework [2]. I think what needs to be > > done there is to add a Mesos resource and a way to submit jobs to a Mesos > > cluster to write e2e tests. > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/flink/tree/master/flink-jepsen > > [2] > > > https://github.com/apache/flink/tree/master/flink-end-to-end-tests/flink-end-to-end-tests-common > > > > Cheers, > > Till > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 12:29 PM Oleksandr Nitavskyi < > > o.nitavs...@criteo.com> wrote: > > > >> Hello Xintong, > >> > >> Thanks for the insights and support. > >> > >> Browsing the Mesos backlog and didn't identify anything critical, which > >> is left there. > >> > >> I see that there are were quite a lot of contributions to the Flink > Mesos > >> in the recent version: > >> https://github.com/apache/flink/commits/master/flink-mesos. > >> We plan to validate the current Flink master (or release 1.12 branch) > our > >> Mesos setup. In case of any issues, we will try to propose changes. > >> My feeling is that our test results shouldn't affect the Flink 1.12 > >> release cycle. And if any potential commits will land into the 1.12.1 it > >> should be totally fine. > >> > >> In the future, we would be glad to help you guys with any > >> maintenance-related questions. One of the highest priorities around this > >> component seems to be the development of the full e2e test. > >> > >> Kind Regards > >> Oleksandr Nitavskyi > >> ________________________________ > >> From: Xintong Song <tonysong...@gmail.com> > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:14 AM > >> To: dev <d...@flink.apache.org>; user <user@flink.apache.org> > >> Cc: Piyush Narang <p.nar...@criteo.com> > >> Subject: [BULK]Re: [SURVEY] Remove Mesos support > >> > >> Hi Piyush, > >> > >> Thanks a lot for sharing the information. It would be a great relief > that > >> you are good with Flink on Mesos as is. > >> > >> As for the jira issues, I believe the most essential ones should have > >> already been resolved. You may find some remaining open issues here [1], > >> but not all of them are necessary if we decide to keep Flink on Mesos > as is. > >> > >> At the moment and in the short future, I think helps are mostly needed > on > >> testing the upcoming release 1.12 with Mesos use cases. The community is > >> currently actively preparing the new release, and hopefully we could > come > >> up with a release candidate early next month. It would be greatly > >> appreciated if you fork as experienced Flink on Mesos users can help > with > >> verifying the release candidates. > >> > >> > >> Thank you~ > >> > >> Xintong Song > >> > >> [1] > >> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-17402?jql=project%20%3D%20FLINK%20AND%20component%20%3D%20%22Deployment%20%2F%20Mesos%22%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Open > >> < > >> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fissues.apache.org%2Fjira%2Fbrowse%2FFLINK-17402%3Fjql%3Dproject%2520%253D%2520FLINK%2520AND%2520component%2520%253D%2520%2522Deployment%2520%252F%2520Mesos%2522%2520AND%2520status%2520%253D%2520Open&data=04%7C01%7Co.nitavskyi%40criteo.com%7C3585e1f25bdf4e091af808d87a3f92db%7C2a35d8fd574d48e3927c8c398e225a01%7C1%7C0%7C637393760750820881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=hytJFQE0MCPzMLiQTQTdbg3GVckX5M3r1NPRGrRV8j4%3D&reserved=0 > >> > > >> > >> On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 2:58 AM Piyush Narang <p.nar...@criteo.com > >> <mailto:p.nar...@criteo.com>> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Xintong, > >> > >> > >> > >> Do you have any jiras that cover any of the items on 1 or 2? I can reach > >> out to folks internally and see if I can get some folks to commit to > >> helping out. > >> > >> > >> > >> To cover the other qs: > >> > >> * Yes, we’ve not got a plan at the moment to get off Mesos. We use > >> Yarn for some our Flink workloads when we can. Mesos is only used when > we > >> need streaming capabilities in our WW dcs (as our Yarn is centralized in > >> one DC) > >> * We’re currently on Flink 1.9 (old planner). We have a plan to bump > >> to 1.11 / 1.12 this quarter. > >> * We typically upgrade once every 6 months to a year (not every > >> release). We’d like to speed up the cadence but we’re not there yet. > >> * We’d largely be good with keeping Flink on Mesos as-is and > >> functional while missing out on some of the newer features. We > understand > >> the pain on the communities side and we can take on the work if we see > some > >> fancy improvement in Flink on Yarn / K8s that we want in Mesos to put in > >> the request to port it over. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> > >> > >> -- Piyush > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> From: Xintong Song <tonysong...@gmail.com<mailto:tonysong...@gmail.com > >> > >> Date: Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 10:57 PM > >> To: dev <d...@flink.apache.org<mailto:d...@flink.apache.org>>, user < > >> user@flink.apache.org<mailto:user@flink.apache.org>> > >> Cc: Lasse Nedergaard <lassenedergaardfl...@gmail.com<mailto: > >> lassenedergaardfl...@gmail.com>>, <p.nar...@criteo.com<mailto: > >> p.nar...@criteo.com>> > >> Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Remove Mesos support > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks for sharing the information with us, Piyush an Lasse. > >> > >> > >> > >> @Piyush > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks for offering the help. IMO, there are currently several problems > >> that make supporting Flink on Mesos challenging for us. > >> > >> 1. Lack of Mesos experts. AFAIK, there are very few people (if not > >> none) among the active contributors in this community that are familiar > >> with Mesos and can help with development on this component. > >> 2. Absence of tests. Mesos does not provide a testing cluster, like > >> `MiniYARNCluster`, making it hard to test interactions between Flink and > >> Mesos. We have only a few very simple e2e tests running on Mesos > deployed > >> in a docker, covering the most fundamental workflows. We are not sure > how > >> well those tests work, especially against some potential corner cases. > >> 3. Divergence from other deployment. Because of 1 and 2, the new > >> efforts (features, maintenance, refactors) tend to exclude Mesos if > >> possible. When the new efforts have to touch the Mesos related > components > >> (e.g., changes to the common resource manager interfaces), we have to be > >> very careful and make as few changes as possible, to avoid accidentally > >> breaking anything that we are not familiar with. As a result, the > component > >> diverges a lot from other deployment components (K8s/Yarn), which makes > it > >> harder to maintain. > >> > >> It would be greatly appreciated if you can help with either of the above > >> issues. > >> > >> > >> > >> Additionally, I have a few questions concerning your use cases at > Criteo. > >> IIUC, you are going to stay on Mesos in the foreseeable future, while > >> keeping the Flink version up-to-date? What Flink version are you > currently > >> using? How often do you upgrade (e.g., every release)? Would you be good > >> with keeping the Flink on Mesos component as it is (means that > deployment > >> and resource management improvements may not be ported to Mesos), while > >> keeping other components up-to-date (e.g., improvements from programming > >> APIs, operators, state backens, etc.)? > >> > >> > >> > >> Thank you~ > >> > >> Xintong Song > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 2:48 AM Lasse Nedergaard < > >> lassenedergaardfl...@gmail.com<mailto:lassenedergaardfl...@gmail.com>> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> > >> > >> At Trackunit We have been using Mesos for long time but have now moved > to > >> k8s. > >> > >> Med venlig hilsen / Best regards > >> > >> Lasse Nedergaard > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Den 23. okt. 2020 kl. 17.01 skrev Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org > >> <mailto:rmetz...@apache.org>>: > >> > >> > >> > >> Hey Piyush, > >> > >> thanks a lot for raising this concern. I believe we should keep Mesos in > >> Flink then in the foreseeable future. > >> > >> Your offer to help is much appreciated. We'll let you know once there is > >> something. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 4:28 PM Piyush Narang <p.nar...@criteo.com > >> <mailto:p.nar...@criteo.com>> wrote: > >> > >> Thanks Kostas. If there's items we can help with, I'm sure we'd be able > >> to find folks who would be excited to contribute / help in any way. > >> > >> -- Piyush > >> > >> > >> On 10/23/20, 10:25 AM, "Kostas Kloudas" <kklou...@gmail.com<mailto: > >> kklou...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> Thanks Piyush for the message. > >> After this, I revoke my +1. I agree with the previous opinions that > we > >> cannot drop code that is actively used by users, especially if it > >> something that deep in the stack as support for cluster management > >> framework. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Kostas > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 4:15 PM Piyush Narang <p.nar...@criteo.com > >> <mailto:p.nar...@criteo.com>> wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi folks, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > We at Criteo are active users of the Flink on Mesos resource > >> management component. We are pretty heavy users of Mesos for scheduling > >> workloads on our edge datacenters and we do want to continue to be able > to > >> run some of our Flink topologies (to compute machine learning short term > >> features) on those DCs. If possible our vote would be not to drop Mesos > >> support as that will tie us to an old release / have to maintain a fork > as > >> we’re not planning to migrate off Mesos anytime soon. Is the burden > >> something that can be helped with by the community? (Or are you > referring > >> to having to ensure PRs handle the Mesos piece as well when they touch > the > >> resource managers?) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- Piyush > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > From: Till Rohrmann <trohrm...@apache.org<mailto: > >> trohrm...@apache.org>> > >> > Date: Friday, October 23, 2020 at 8:19 AM > >> > To: Xintong Song <tonysong...@gmail.com<mailto: > >> tonysong...@gmail.com>> > >> > Cc: dev <d...@flink.apache.org<mailto:d...@flink.apache.org>>, > user < > >> user@flink.apache.org<mailto:user@flink.apache.org>> > >> > Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Remove Mesos support > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thanks for starting this survey Robert! I second Konstantin and > >> Xintong in the sense that our Mesos user's opinions should matter most > >> here. If our community is no longer using the Mesos integration, then I > >> would be +1 for removing it in order to decrease the maintenance burden. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Cheers, > >> > > >> > Till > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 2:03 PM Xintong Song < > tonysong...@gmail.com > >> <mailto:tonysong...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > > >> > +1 for adding a warning in 1.12 about planning to remove Mesos > >> support. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > With my developer hat on, removing the Mesos support would > >> definitely reduce the maintaining overhead for the deployment and > resource > >> management related components. On the other hand, the Flink on Mesos > users' > >> voices definitely matter a lot for this community. Either way, it would > be > >> good to draw users attention to this discussion early. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Thank you~ > >> > > >> > Xintong Song > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 7:53 PM Konstantin Knauf < > kna...@apache.org > >> <mailto:kna...@apache.org>> wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi Robert, > >> > > >> > +1 to the plan you outlined. If we were to drop support in Flink > >> 1.13+, we > >> > would still support it in Flink 1.12- with bug fixes for some time > >> so that > >> > users have time to move on. > >> > > >> > It would certainly be very interesting to hear from current Flink > >> on Mesos > >> > users, on how they see the evolution of this part of the > ecosystem. > >> > > >> > Best, > >> > > >> > Konstantin > >> > > > -- Konstantin Knauf https://twitter.com/snntrable https://github.com/knaufk
