+1 for making it consistent. When using X state backend, timers should be stored in X by default.
Also I think any configuration option controlling that needs to be well documented in some performance tuning section of the docs. Piotrek > On 17 Jan 2020, at 09:16, Congxian Qiu <qcx978132...@gmail.com> wrote: > > +1 to store timers in RocksDB default. > > Store timers in Heap can encounter OOM problems, and make the checkpoint much > slower, and store times in RocksDB can get ride of both. > > Best, > Congxian > > > Biao Liu <mmyy1...@gmail.com <mailto:mmyy1...@gmail.com>> 于2020年1月17日周五 > 下午3:10写道： > +1 > > I think that's how it should be. Timer should align with other regular state. > > If user wants a better performance without memory concern, memory or FS > statebackend might be considered. Or maybe we could optimize the performance > by introducing a specific column family for timer. It could have its own > tuned options. > > Thanks, > Biao /'bɪ.aʊ/ > > > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 at 10:11, Jingsong Li <jingsongl...@gmail.com > <mailto:jingsongl...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Hi Stephan, > > Thanks for starting this discussion. > +1 for stores times in RocksDB by default. > In the past, when Flink didn't save the times with RocksDb, I had a headache. > I always adjusted parameters carefully to ensure that there was no risk of > Out of Memory. > > Just curious, how much impact of heap and RocksDb for times on performance > - if there is no order of magnitude difference between heap and RocksDb, > there is no problem in using RocksDb. > - if there is, maybe we should improve our documentation to let users know > about this option. (Looks like a lot of users didn't know) > > Best, > Jingsong Lee > > On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 3:18 AM Yun Tang <myas...@live.com > <mailto:myas...@live.com>> wrote: > Hi Stephan, > > I am +1 for the change which stores timers in RocksDB by default. > > Some users hope the checkpoint could be completed as fast as possible, which > also need the timer stored in RocksDB to not affect the sync part of > checkpoint. > > Best > Yun Tang > From: Andrey Zagrebin <azagre...@apache.org <mailto:azagre...@apache.org>> > Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 0:07 > To: Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org <mailto:se...@apache.org>> > Cc: dev <d...@flink.apache.org <mailto:d...@flink.apache.org>>; user > <user@flink.apache.org <mailto:user@flink.apache.org>> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Change default for RocksDB timers: Java Heap => in > RocksDB > > Hi Stephan, > > Thanks for starting this discussion. I am +1 for this change. > In general, number of timer state keys can have the same order as number of > main state keys. > So if RocksDB is used for main state for scalability, it makes sense to have > timers there as well > unless timers are used for only very limited subset of keys which fits into > memory. > > Best, > Andrey > > On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 4:27 PM Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org > <mailto:se...@apache.org>> wrote: > Hi all! > > I would suggest a change of the current default for timers. A bit of > background: > > - Timers (for windows, process functions, etc.) are state that is managed > and checkpointed as well. > - When using the MemoryStateBackend and the FsStateBackend, timers are kept > on the JVM heap, like regular state. > - When using the RocksDBStateBackend, timers can be kept in RocksDB (like > other state) or on the JVM heap. The JVM heap is the default though! > > I find this a bit un-intuitive and would propose to change this to let the > RocksDBStateBackend store all state in RocksDB by default. > The rationale being that if there is a tradeoff (like here), safe and > scalable should be the default and unsafe performance be an explicit choice. > > This sentiment seems to be shared by various users as well, see > https://twitter.com/StephanEwen/status/1214590846168903680 > <https://twitter.com/StephanEwen/status/1214590846168903680> and > https://twitter.com/StephanEwen/status/1214594273565388801 > <https://twitter.com/StephanEwen/status/1214594273565388801> > We would of course keep the switch and mention in the performance tuning > section that this is an option. > > # RocksDB State Backend Timers on Heap > - Pro: faster > - Con: not memory safe, GC overhead, longer synchronous checkpoint time, no > incremental checkpoints > > # RocksDB State Backend Timers on in RocksDB > - Pro: safe and scalable, asynchronously and incrementally checkpointed > - Con: performance overhead. > > Please chime in and let me know what you think. > > Best, > Stephan > > > > -- > Best, Jingsong Lee
