On 2015-10-26 18:06, Richard Gaskin wrote:
The gap between understanding low-level data types, structures,
frameworks, and APIs and being able to write in the lower-level
language they were designed for is smaller than the gap between
knowing only xTalk and having to learn to think in terms of low-level
data types, structure, frameworks, and APIs.
I honestly don't think that is actually true anymore (but what would I
know, I've only been working with them, and with LiveCode for over a
decade ;)). OS APIs are much higher level than they used to be - indeed,
the number of 'type' concepts you tend to need to use them has
diminished greatly - mainly because OS vendors now see the need that
they need to be 'mappable' from any language. Indeed, once someone has
written the 'bindings' which describe how the OS APIs can be leveraged
from another language - anyone who comes along subsequently doesn't even
need to concern themselves with how they were originally defined.
These 'type concepts' actually do very easily map in an xTalk-like way
as long as you are willing to drop the 'stringyness' (this is mainly
because many OS APIs return what you could call 'transient objects'
which need to be manipulated - you can't think in the traditional xTalk
'stringy' way to work with these in a simple way).
One of the principal differences between LiveCode Script and LiveCode
Builder is that LiveCode Script tries very hard to be a 'typeless'
language (okay so it has arrays so it isn't really), whereas LiveCode
Builder doesn't - it has dynamically typed semantics which are strictly
enforced.
Now, the amusing thing is that LiveCode Script has never hidden you from
typing (nor has HyperTalk, or any of the others) - you still have to
think at times... Hmmm - is this a number, is this a string, is this
'true' or 'false', is this an array (after all you can't add 1 to a
variable which contains "foo").
Indeed, there is a huge subtlety in terms of typing which actually
defines the current difference - LiveCode Script will try its best to
match an input argument's value (type-wise) to the context it is being
used in (this is essentially 'typelessness' save for the fact that
MetaTalk ceased to be typeless when arrays were added). LiveCode
Builder, on the other hand, will require you to tell it that you want to
convert an input argument's value to (if they don't explicitly match).
Indeed, that's the point of xTalk.
Is it? I suspect you have your own ideas about what 'the point of an
xTalk' is (which doesn't appear to include syntax, based on many of your
comments recently and over the years), and a lot of other people in the
community will have their own ideas.
The point is that there are many many facets which make LiveCode
(Script) what it is and all of these need to be preserved as most people
will depend on a subset of them (I'm not talking about features here -
I'm talking about the ideas that underpin the language).
Here's a first stab at a list (again, I'm not even talking about the
actual objects you can create, or the functionality you can access, nor
the IDE):
- English-like syntax which minimizes symbols and attempts to
maximize readability
- Contextual typing (a polite way to say almost typeless but
'polluted' with arrays ;))
- Automatic mutability ('put x after tString', automatically makes
tString something which can be appended to)
- The ability to manipulate parts of an object easily, in both
evaluation and assignment contexts (chunk expressions)
- Named hierarchical objects manipulatable at runtime (create field
/ delete field etc.)
- The ability to attach scripts to objects which automatically
connect signals (on mouseUp actually directly specified at the target
level)
- Gated dynamism (do, value - explicit access to runtime compilation
and execution under well defined terms)
Then, of course, if you step back from the language you get to also
consider:
- Edit / Run live (no stop-the-world compile cycle)
- Integrated editing environment
- Domain specific language for manipulating UIs
- Cross-platform
Overall there is something about LiveCode Script (and the xTalks which
have gone before) which does seem to make writing code easier (if there
wasn't, I wouldn't be here) - however, quantifying that into actually
fundamental aspects of it is not an easy task.
Warmest Regards,
Mark.
--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
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