I guess I'm going to have to find time to get SQLMagic finished ( http://www.lcsql.com/sqlmagic.html). Been distracted with other projects for a while.
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 4:02 PM Tim Selander <selan...@tkf.att.ne.jp> wrote: > Roland, > > Amen, preach it brother! > > Filemaker with xTalk replacing FM's miserable "scripting." I > have been looking for that product, to no avail, since the demise > of HyperCard. > > Tim Selander > Tokyo, Japan > > > On 9/19/15, 1:59, R.H. wrote: > > Following the really interesting discussions on this list for two years, > > enjoying the verve with which those developers in Edinburgh are trying to > > stitch the pieces together – and I know how much dedication this requires > > supporting so many different platforms and aspects of the LiveCode > engine – > > and I want to thank them and support them - I think, not being a > hard-core > > programmer, just maybe an advanced user, just someone with ideas about > > possible applications, I sometimes feel a bit lost. > > > > > > I enjoy the smart contributions seen here on the list, maybe it from > Monte, > > or Peter, or Rick or whoever. > > > > > > So, I am not sure my contribution here would lead to another thread about > > LiveCode and how the "rest of us" – the non programmers – might see it. > It > > is just my very subjective contribution as a non-programmer. > > > > > > Even I am thinking often, how such group of dedicated LiveCode mothership > > developers could receive more support, or how the business model for them > > would work out. Because without money nothing can be done. For example, I > > am paying for a Microsoft membership, for Adobe creative tools, for > Google > > Cloud space, for a dedicated VPN to allow myself to not being detected > as a > > Swiss user only (10 dollars per month), I am paying 5 bucks for my daily > > coffee in the coffee shop. > > > > > > Assuming 100,000 paying LiveCode customers, every one paying 10 dollars > > each month, it would be sufficient to get things really going and > inviting > > many more supporters and developers to be on board. If it does not reach > > big numbers, what would be the future of LiveCode? It has to grow BIG. > > > > > > To me and my clients, the front end usability is what we see and what we > > want. > > > > > > I love LiveCode for its language and doing what I tell it to do (more or > > less) with simple English expressions. I question it for not providing me > > the necessary building blocks of an integrated framework allowing to do > > simple things without having to worry about the details. I do not really > > like its current standard visual interface, and it requires quite some > work > > to make this interface shine and be really usable to end users. > > > > > > I love Filemaker as one of the tools I am using for in-house-development, > > but I hate its scripting language and its slow upgrade cycle, its many > > limitations, and for a small company it is already much too costly to > > distribute solutions to other users. It is not a language. It is just a > > nice database application development engine. > > > > > > What I am up to in my contribution would be the vision that LiveCode > would > > introduce aspects of something like Filemaker. > > > > > > I am convinced that the majority of paying users (monthly 10 dollars) > would > > be business people, smallest companies for 1-10 people - but they have > > business needs – and business almost always needs database applications. > > So, we are talking about database driven applications. > > > > > > Such apps are not made just for fun or done as a hobby, or to develop a > lot > > of games. There is a definite business reason, abiding to platform > specific > > usability guidelines, looking sexy, and doing what they have to do for > lots > > of end users, non programmers, just users like you and me. And a business > > is ready to pay for that. Business is not paying for games. The game > market > > is a different market, even though game-like presentations are sometimes > > also very useful. ( I am not against using LiveCode for game-development > or > > anything to not be misunderstood ))). > > > > > > The Filemaker market is already big enough. I am sure many Filemaker > users > > and developers would switch to LiveCode if it would provide a similar > ease > > of development and deployment. And that means possibly using the new-born > > widgets technology. > > > > > > But today, I am still much faster in developing a small solution for a > > company using Filemaker compared to LiveCode. Much faster! > > > > > > Why not there is a field that can easily be set to display international > > date and time formats and automatically would default to local standards > > without having to script a lot and redoing the same work over and over > > again? Why not a field can be defined to represent whatever data it > should > > provide and automatically check user input? Why not there are classes of > > fields that can be defined behaving the same using a domain-like concept? > > > > > > Why not there is a data grid working like a portal in Filemaker, just > > allowing to insert whatever we want, buttons and pictures, fields and > > menus? I do not have the time to work with the details of the current > data > > grid – except for simple text input. Why should I have to script myself > all > > the small bits and pieces? It needs too much time. And if fields are > > connected with an underlying database, I want to see the updates > > immediately. And why not there is a data input mechanism - add data, edit > > data, remove data, show data including filtering and sorting? That is the > > pattern everybody is used to. > > > > > > Why not there is an easy way to define a database with tables and then > link > > database fields to tables? It could allow defining everything in the > > database while defining the fields including validation rules, indexes, > > etc.? And then allow to create links between tables combining data so > that > > SQL would only be needed on a more deeper level? > > > > > > Why not there could be an automatic synchronization mechanism between a > > local database such as SQLite and a server database such as MySQL or > MS-SQL > > or whatever? Do I have to all program that myself? > > > > > > Why not there would be a simple in-built filter and search mechanism to > > display data and to export/import or create output using an inbuilt > Report > > engine? > > > > > > Why not there is a security framework easy to include protecting data, > > whether on a local machine, or distributed in a network, or kept on some > > server? > > > > > > Take the complexity away from the standard user as much as possible. Let > > the user focus on the application in business or private work. Above > that, > > there is still all the space to go deeper and deeper for those who have > the > > time and enjoy it, or must do it. And that possibility greatly ads to the > > user enjoyment. > > > > > > I would love to see such framework integrated into the engine, or very > > closely related to it, that does all such work and leaves me focusing on > > WHAT I want to achieve, and not on HOW to achieve it. > > > > > > And I agree, there is a difference in deployment for small screens, or > big > > desktop monitors with various sizes and resolutions. Not everything will > > ever be possible using just one layout. But at least the data sources > > should be available everywhere, the basic logic should be there, the > > expected functionality should work the same everywhere. And then there > is a > > difference in layout and what a user can do depending on the hardware he > is > > using. > > > > > > I hope very much that all this will become possible with LiveCode 8 and > > higher. Or maybe, I am too ambitious? I would love to see the better > > Filemaker worked out using LiveCode. And it will find hundreds of > thousands > > of users, and therefore developers. > > > > > > Because such LiveCode will be more fun, that is interesting, sexy, that > is > > unique to each company. Changes to a data model should be easy, > deployment > > to many users should just be a push-button operation. > > > > > > LiveCode applications must also visually look like a very modern > > state-of-the-art piece of solid work, really supporting standard > usability > > and user interface guidelines, or allow to break standards only in case > > there is a definite advantage. Follow the rules unless you master the > > rules. Only then you can break out. > > > > > > I have seen so many ugly LiveCode applications – and I am even producing > > such ugly apps myself – that there is no wonder that nobody out there > gets > > overly exited since there are thousands of nice looking web pages and web > > applications, and desktop and mobile apps... > > > > > > Again, I vote for paying 10 dollars a month, and supporting a very speedy > > growth of LiveCode to have hundreds of thousands of such paying users and > > customers. I am not willing to spend 100 dollars a month as I am > comparing > > with other tools, and I am already paying lots of money which creating > > holes in my purse. 10 bucks everyone will easily afford for something he > or > > she likes.The profit is in the numbers. > > > > > > And at least then I could also expect that documentation is reflecting > the > > actual engine and I am not spending hours and days searching around just > to > > find out that something is not working, or not working as expected. > > documentation is a field that needs a huge effort to improve. > > > > > > And why not there are ready-made solutions as in Filemaker that just can > be > > tailored to individual needs providing the basis for a professional > looking > > and behaving application? All the basic coding should be there providing > a > > template about how to script in LiveCode. It is not enough to have a > small > > scale app displaying something. It should serve a business purpose, a > > private purpose, an educational purpose. because business will pay for > > LiveCode development. And if the big business guys are not sold out to it > > yet, the small business guys will do it. > > > > > > There need to be hundreds and even thousands of well-looking and > > well-performing apps out there stamped with "Made with LiveCode". How to > > make developers do that? They must see the advantage. They must see the > > business for themselves. They do it to earn money as well! > > > > > > I would employ developers paying 10 bucks to LiveCode for each of them > each > > month, and have them develop what I want to receive, and my clients want > to > > enjoy. I would even have them contribute to the engine. > > > > > > And I just believe that LiveCode needs many more professional developers > > and people focused coding, on professional documentation and on marketing > > this "mothership". Why not outsource part of the work to save costs? I > > myself have built and managed teams of over 100 people in software > > development over 15 years, and it was really a joy working with > intelligent > > people for reasonable costs. At least there could be testing team > > outsourced somewhere. Why not many more autistic people - often good in > > programming - are taking the rid? Or educated young people coming from > > Syria as refugees? Or lots of smart people growing up every day in > Africa? > > Or India? Maybe it is too difficult to convince already established > > programmers? And a lot could be sponsored. I am not talking of small > > numbers of intelligent people. > > > > > > If LiveCode is not growing faster, fed from a naturally increasing > interest > > and driven by the joy of doing it, shared by developers around the world > > who are just happily supporting it, then there is a danger that it would > > eventually sink down to the bottom of the sea. > > > > > > Embrace the world. Become attractive. There must be a "wow" effect to > move > > people. > > > > > > I want to see LiveCode lifting up like the flying Dutch- (sorry) > Scotsman, > > soon, sooner, today. > > > > > > Roland > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
