On 12/08/15 23:59, Brahmanathaswami wrote:
@ Kevin: We are non-profit.. I have an Indy license solely for the iOS
password protection requirement. Expand my use case to 10,000's of
students and educators and hobbyists and web site owners who mix it up
with desktop clients and server side API's like I do...if something is
over my head, I pay for hours from the brainiacs we all know and love
(Andre, and soon others) we are talking 100,000 plus potential users
who would not fall into your "serious business customers" bracket, who
every day have to decide if they want to use Unity, Blender, PHP,
Ruby, JS, Python for their solutions. LC stands side by side a
thriving and dynamically evolving world. We truly are in the middle of
a digital revolution. Be careful not to suck the wind out of your own
sails.
If I want to put my "stack out there" and get help.. have some others
work on it, pro bono.. .or I might pay them for 10-15 hours of work.
Someone is inspired... to help... (Jacqueline helped me recently with
a little puzzle module improvements.)
@Bill Does this make me and those like us... "single developer for
whom GIT is not important" ? hardly... every day recently I thinking
about this RVS thing and might resurrect Magic Carpet.
@ Kevin wrote: "Some features may filter down to open source.. but for
the present we are focused on our serious business customers."
and
" It is far more than simply adding ³GitHub" to LiveCode. It brings in
advanced concepts such as object-orientation, a model-view controller
architecture and hooks into data sync and other heavyweight features.
It is not for everyone. If you are an individual building an
application then you might want to evaluate whether its worth the
extra effort, level of complexity and abstractions associated with
using it."
IMHO: (sorry for the tough talk... we are all friends here... I love
you all in Edinburgh! think of this as positive brainstorming... all
team players on the same team.)
a) All your fund raising campaigns, were promises, We can sit all day
and do triage on the roadmap, which features where promised, and to
who and who was helping to support future development of what... etc.
(I think you have been doing great!) but the whole spirit of where you
were going -- your leadership message to the community was a huge
promise to us. Which now you say that "well some features may be
beyond you... so we are going to charge for those." or, as some might
take it "you might be a dummy so you really don't need those things
in your community or Indy world." I humbly suggest this is not the
message you want to send to the world.
b) Agreed, there may certainly be some things beyond, me, but not
beyond others in my "category" half production
manager/half-executive/half educator/half coder e.g. I have an indy
license, can't I hire David Bovill or Monte to help with some module
for my 100% free-never-see-a-penny in revenue app that I am making?
Yep I have a small budget for that but "Oh Gee, no collaborative
framework, ouch.. .and I can't use all that other cool stuff (object
oriented, MVC... whatever) that I thought we were all helping to pay
for development of...."
c) suggestion: "Some features may filter down to open source" Don't
wait.... parse out today, now! Parse out what all those users who
have PHP, Ruby, Unity, Javascript staring in their face this very
moment, would expect and want that you now propose to put behind a
paywall. Do I need cloud services? no... skip that one... do we all
need a collaborative framework "duh!" How will you *ever* achieve your
goal of have LC be one of the top ten languages with that that? go
down that list today. Move features over to the open source column today.
d) @ Lyn Teyla: Ditto what Lyn said... she (he?) pretty well defined
c) above.
e) #@ Andrew: lighten up dude! LC still gets the job done. Give Kevin
credit for steering the ship as well as he has... it's not an easy job!
On a positive note: At the end of the day I will still be using
LiveCode.. in the past three weeks I'm building my first mobile app. I
must finish a complete working prototype by September 15. (rarely do I
have that kind of deadline) I know for a fact that had I done this in
any other language... or even hired someone competent in any other
language... that we would still be at "phase one" and not anywhere
near close to how far I have come in less than 30 man hours......
*Brahmanathaswami* has basically said what I have said, although,
admittedly, in a slightly more tactful way.
There are other voices out there who are reading this thread at the
moment, but are saying nothing or very little.
This debate is important (whichever way your opinions swings!),
especially if you care about LiveCode; in terms of its Open Source arm,
it Commercial arm, and its survival.
I don't think LiveCode will thrive if it continues to present itself to
the world in the way it is just now.
The more people who state their opinion, the more healthy and
pluralistic the debate will become, and the more likely that LiveCode
will sit up and take notice *seriously*: something I believe it should
have done a very long time ago.
Richmond.
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