Alex Tweedly wrote:
> I'll add my thanks for such a useful tool.
Thank you for the kind words.
> I don't know if it's an anomaly or another failing in widget support
> :-)
>
> The NavBar widget has a number of properties (itemNames, itemStyle,
> hilitedItem, itemArray, ..) which are visible in the Object Inspector,
> but not in 4WProps.
(Pardon my verbosity, but leisurely Sunday mornings find me erring on
the side of completeness; at least for readability I've included section
headings <g>).
The Question: Seeking Unified Introspection
-------------------------------------------
Ah yes, the perennial question of the difference in accessing complete
properties for LC-native objects and widgets...
Neville asked about this here in April:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2022-April/267711.html
It resulted in a thread of healthy length that IMO is worth reading. You
can see it all sorting by topic in the archives - scroll down to
Neville's "Widget properties" post as the entry point:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2022-April/thread.html#start
IIRC Monte was the only team member to chime in on that thread, the
first of his posts sharing his uniquely valuable perspective is here:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2022-April/267732.html
Along the way Neville submitted an enhancement request, currently
flagged for "Expert Review":
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23670
The implications for my lil' Property Sheet tool was among my
contributions to that thread.
That we currently have no unified introspection mechanism results in
threads like that every now and then, in one form or another, every few
months among the various LC discussion venues.
The true scope of the challenge isn't limited to just adding widgets:
compound objects like the DataGrid should arguably be included as well,
and there's been talk of revisiting that model in an extended form for
LC v10 or later, which might then potentially be a fourth object model.
In short, "the properties" has been the primary introspection method
used by scripters as far back as I can recall, and I've been using this
engine since '97. The addition of new object paradigms multiplies the
range of things scripters need to know, and which toolmakers need to
account for.
This is apparently known to the company, and while there is indication
of interest in providing a unified introspection mechanism it's unclear
to me what form it might take, and when or even if it might become at
least a convention (like the old RIP community standards once attempted)
if not an engine feature.
The Challenge: Finding net-positive ROI in LC Tools
---------------------------------------------------
So that's the scope of the issue. The question you asked is how I'll
address it in 4W Props.
I've spent a good portion of the last two decades trying to find a
break-even for LC aftermarket stuff.
So very tempting to me, having launched my business as a provider of
SuperCard add-ons back in the day. It's a business model I know well and
enjoy. I miss my monthly train rides to the SuperCard headquarters where
we'd outline co-marketing plans, product strategy, IDE features, and the
like. And my partnership with Hiezer to add Fourth World pages in their
catalog was great fun; I learned much from Heizer manager Brian
Molyneaux. The effort was reasonably satisfying: even before the execs
at SuperCard invited me into an advisory role, revenue from my SC tools
paid most of my bills. (Allegiant's eventual demise is another story
best told round a campfire, but the cause wasn't a lack of money; their
four-space booth at MacWorld Expo every six months had brisk traffic).
Given my business history, it's probably not surprising that I have a
few GBs of LC tools, books, interactive training materials, etc. in
various stages on my hard drive, all waiting for me to discover the
magic formula for break-even in the LC universe. Despite the success I'd
found almost accidentally in the SC world, I know of no third-party
add-on for LC that has hit a true break-even.
So in this universe I've had to adjust my expectations. Like most tools
providers here, any tools I take the time to tidy up enough to publish
are things I built to support my own work, effectively subsidized by
what would otherwise be net income.
I very much appreciate the occasional donations that come in now and
then; they keep me motivated to keep this published subset of tools
current with new LC versions, and occasionally add new features. But
still the need to subsidize them remains.
And all the while my internal business needs for LC-specific tools has
leveled off, as an ever-larger percentage of the systems I deliver are
not in LC.
The Answer: Anticipating Revelation of Unknowns
-----------------------------------------------
All this combines to a needlessly-lengthy way of just saying:
My tools are currently only what I need them to be, and I'd be more than
happy (thrilled, actually) to make them into what others want them to be
if I can find a way to afford to do so. Toolmaking is my roots, and I
enjoy it.
With 4W Props, the prospect of at last having a unified introspection
mechanism is enticing enough to encourage me to hold off on further
expense until I see where things go with that in v10.
Support for widget-specific properties is only one set of enhancements.
A wider range of GUI value pickers has been spec'd, along with options
for grouping the settings so rather than just alphabetical they can also
be arranged topically, perhaps with a set of favorites at the top (each
of us has our own needs, and the rich scope of LC object properties is
enjoyed by all of us sooner or later).
So much that can be done, the moment I can find the cost justification
for doing it...
--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems
Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
____________________________________________________________________
ambassa...@fourthworld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
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