Panos, as usual, this is terrific information! I am applying your advice immediately.
Not to start an argument, the statistics you quote don’t accord with my personal experience. Almost everyone I know who owns Apple kit has at least one phone or iPad that can’t be upgraded to the latest OS version - and these devices still work well. In our house for example there are three iPhones, only one of which can run 13.x; two iPads, one newish one and another which is back at iOS 9 I think (still works for email and browsing, at any rate). However, to be practical I will do as you suggest with my own app. Thanks for your continued interest in these issues. Graham > On 27 Apr 2020, at 14:11, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode > <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Hello Graham, > > I could not find any *official* source from Apple, as their docs are > scattered around and it is not easy to determine always if a document is > out of date, but from what I understand iOS apps are running in the > background by default since iOS 12+. Given how quickly people are moving > (or forced to move) to using the latest iOS versions, I would not worry if > my app (in the AppStore) only covered iOS 12+: > > iOS version stats: (from https://david-smith.org/iosversionstats/) > > 13.X --> 92.5% > 12.X --> 5.1% > 11.X --> 0.7% > 10.X --> 0.7% > 9.X --> 1.0% > > For your use case, I think this should work: > > - Use LC 9.5.1 and check "Enable Background Execution" and "Location > Updates" in the background modes in the iOS settings. This should allow > your app to receive the "locationChanged" msg even when in background. Then > use an ad-hoc distribution profile to sign your app and deliver it to > specific devices (including pre-ios12) to get some feedback > > - When you are ready for publishing the app to the AppStore, just rebuild > it with LC 9.6, using an AppStore distribution profile, and upload it to > the AppStore. You will be able to deliver it to some beta testers via > TestFlight at this point (running iOS 12+) > > Hope this helps. > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 at 14:14, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Panos, thanks for that info. The truth is my particular app has proved >> such a challenge for me in so many different ways that it may never reach >> its intended user population - but on the off-chance that I do finish it, >> then I think I may have to get involved with the Apple App Store, if only >> to use TestFlight to get it out to quite a lot of people. So maybe my >> announcement at that point will be that if your phone only runs earlier >> versions of iOS, sorry it won’t work unless you are willing to use it >> without ever letting the app go into the background - something very >> awkward in practice if you’re walking for an hour, which is what first use >> is all about. Can you say what is the lowest version of iOS is that would >> allow background working without a problem? Right now in my other test >> device I’m running iOS 13, which must be OK, but are there others, 11.x and >> 12. x that would be OK? >> >> Having asked that, please note that ‘running in the background’ seems to >> mean different things to different people, but to me it means continuing to >> receive sensor data while in the background, since as far as I know, such >> data would be unrecoverable if not collected in real time. A good example >> would be working out how far a person has walked. This can only be done by >> accumulating increments of change of location (via GPS) without any serious >> gaps, so data acquisition has to be continuous. There are lots of other >> examples, specially if we’re allowing Bluetooth connected sensors. >> >> Just for completeness I should say that I have asked LC Support to explain >> commands like mergBgTask, as the available documentation does not give >> examples etc. and really does not help the newbie in this area. >> >> Graham >> >>> On 27 Apr 2020, at 10:24, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Just to add to the discussion that one of Graham's phones runs iOS 10.x, >> so >>> in this case, if you need your app to continue running in the background, >>> you do need to build it with 9.5.1 and check the "enable background >>> execution" checkbox in the iOS settings. However, you will not be able to >>> submit this build to the AppStore, as Apple no longer accepts >> applications >>> that have this key that is added to the plist if you check "Enable >>> Background execution". Devices running newer iOS versions will allow >> apps >>> running in the background anyway, so you do not need this key in the >> plist >>> - and this is why this key (i.e. the checkbox) was removed in LC 9.6 >> DP-3. >>> >>> So, to conclude, given that you are not interested in submitting the app >> to >>> the AppStore, I believe you can include this key to the plist (i.e. check >>> "Enable Background Execution" checkbox), so your app will continue >> running >>> in the background in both old and new iOS devices. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 at 10:42, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Jacque and Mark - very interesting! Your messages told me stuff I >>>> did not know. mergBgTask looks scary and somewhat unsure of itself, but >>>> i’ll try. >>>> >>>> What is happening to me is that the app is suspended and effectively >>>> stopped when it goes into the background. From this state it can only be >>>> relaunched, showing the splash screen which I had to provide to iOS >> (this >>>> is not a card in my stack, just a PNG file insisted on by Apple), so the >>>> user does not perceive the app to be resuming, but rather restarting. I >>>> want them to see the screen they last saw when the app was in the >>>> foreground. Plenty of apps do this - Strava, FitDigits, etc. More >>>> importantly they do continue to actually run in the background, so that >>>> there are for example no gaps in the sensor records they are displaying, >>>> either via Bluetooth (Heart Rate Monitors for example) or direct via >> the OS >>>> (GPS information). I need that facility or my app is dead in the water. >> I >>>> don’t have trouble restoring the app’s status on a restart, as I keep >>>> updating the status and storing it in the cache area of my app - but >> that >>>> doesn’t help with the continuous-monitoring-in-the-background >> requirement. >>>> >>>> BTW, Jacque you said >>>> >>>>> You are probably running an older version of LC since that checkbox has >>>> been removed recently. >>>> >>>> Perhaps in the latest DP, but it’s there in the latest official version, >>>> 9.5.1, at least in Indy, which I use. >>>> >>>> Will keep trying. >>>> >>>> Graham >>>> >>>>> On 27 Apr 2020, at 08:48, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 2020-04-27 07:25, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> On 4/26/20 4:43 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>> I notice in the Standalone Settings for iOS in LC 9.5.1, a button >>>> ‘Background Execution’. If I click it, I get a warning that I don’t >> really >>>> understand which suggests that LC doesn’t officially support the >> feature. >>>> I’m not even sure if this feature is what I need. >>>>>> Basically you have to save the user state repeatedly whenever anything >>>>>> significant changes, in case the app goes dormant. >>>>> >>>>> You actually need to do this regardless of having suspend/resume >>>> messages as there's no guarantee that (1) you will get them and (2) you >>>> will be able to execute them long enough to save all current state. >>>>> >>>>> Both mergBgTask and mergNotify provide features to enable managing the >>>> background task feature of iOS, and the suspend/resume notifications >> though. >>>>> >>>>> Warmest Regards >>>>> >>>>> Mark. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>>>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
