On 13-06-14 11:33 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Friday, June 14, 2013 11:15:17 AM Marc Deslauriers wrote: >> On 13-06-14 11:04 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote: >>> On Friday, June 14, 2013 03:54:32 PM Jonathan Riddell wrote: >>>> Here's a discussion I half started as part of vUDS. >>>> >>>> The switch to Mir in Ubuntu seems pretty risky for the existance of >>>> Kubuntu, I wonder if other flavours have the same probable problem. >>>> >>>> KWin dev has opinions on the subject >>>> http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/05/mir-in-kubuntu/ From the >>>> >>>> architecture section on that blog post: >>>> "Mir’s architecture is centered around Unity. It is difficult to really >>>> understand the architecture of Mir as the specification is so full of >>>> buzz-words that I don’t understand it [5]. From all I can see and >>>> understand Unity Next is a combination of window manager and desktop >>>> shell implemented on top of Mir. How exactly this is going to look >>>> like I do not know. Anyway it does not fit our design of having >>>> desktop shell and window manager separated and we do not know whether >>>> Mir would support that. We also do not know whether Mir would allow >>>> any other desktop shell except Unity Next, given that this is the main >>>> target. Wayland on the other hand is designed to have more than one >>>> compositor implementations. Using KWin as a session compositor is an >>>> example in the spec." >>>> >>>> and on protocol >>>> >>>> "But it gets worse, the protocol between Mir server and Mir clients >>>> is defined as not being stable. In fact it’s promised that it will >>>> break. That’s a huge problem, I would even call it a showstopper.... >>>> Given that the protocol may change any time and given that the whole >>>> thing is developed for the needs of Unity we have to expect that the >>>> server libraries are not binary compatible or that old version of the >>>> server libraries cannot talk with the latest client libraries" >>>> >>>> Canonical was going to port LightDM to Wayland but now does not plan >>>> to so someone else would have to do this. KDE might be interested >>>> but more likely will switch to SDDM. >>>> >>>> For Kubuntu the options are: >>>> - Use Mir - infeasable as upstream can't support it as described above >>>> - Use Wayland with packages from Debian and hope we can make those >>>> packages >>>> >>>> live with Mir as best as possible >>>> >>>> - End of Kubuntu >>>> >>>> The second options is the one I'm expecting. It's completely unknown >>>> how much it means Kubuntu and other flavours will need to maintain X >>>> and Wayland packages, hopefully not much (it's hardly our speciality) >>>> and hopefully Debian and Ubuntu Desktop will support it enough. >>>> >>>> I don't think there's a public timeline for Mir so we don't know when >>>> this will hit us, presumably in the next year. >>>> >>>> Other flavours I think are this: >>>> Mythbuntu: not evaluated, hope to do so once NVideo and AMD provide >>>> drivers >>>> Lubuntu: not evaluated, hope to use X and GTK >>>> ubuntustudio: I've heard both that they use xfce based on xubuntu and >>>> will follow them, and "aiming for users to choose whatever desktop >>>> environment they want" >>>> >>>> Any other flavours got an opinions? >>>> >>>> Are there any misconceptions I have in the above? >>> >>> Given that mesa is going to be heavily patched to support Mir, I question >>> the long term feasibility of supporting Wayland in Ubuntu. >> >> How would adding a new backend to mesa result in it being "heavily >> patched"? Why would adding a new backend to mesa affect the other >> backends, including Wayland? > > Upstream kwin tells us they already see bug reports from Kubuntu users due to > mesa changes to support Unity. I don't think it's just a new back end. >
Oh? That's quite odd, I don't see any Unity patches in the mesa package in saucy. There are a couple of build fixes, and other trivial things, but nothing that should be problematic. Do you have any more details, or opened bugs about the issues? Marc. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list [email protected] Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
