Tom H schreef op 31-03-16 10:38: > On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Xen <l...@xenhideout.nl> wrote: >> Colin Law schreef op 28-03-2016 18:38: >>> Are these not issues for upstream Nautilus developers to consider >>> rather than Ubuntu? >> The point is really that if people "downstream" *care* their voice becomes >> stronger 'upstream'. >> >> If a number of people downstream say "hey, yes this is a great idea" it is >> no longer one single person trying to knock at the upstream door. Now it is >> an important downstream user (like, a part of, or, the entire Ubuntu thing) >> that tries to make a voice be heard, and this kinda changes things. >> >> If downstream pulls its hands off of the idea, upstream is not really going >> to be interested in it either. So that is a very non-functional way to >> approach things, it is like destroying the bridges you have before you even >> cross them. > This isn't how upstream development's working. > > For example, look at all of the user push-back against the Gnome Shell > and Unity UIs. The upstream developers stood by their guns. > > The only way to push for a change is to file an RFE bug with upstream.
Lots of people give up before they even try. I can tell you some real nasty things In my life that went wrong because I was not the one that pushed for it, but someone else who didn't care. That other person would then tell all kinds of excuses why the other party made the choice they did, but in reality that other party would have responded differently to someone who actually cared, or who tried harder. Many times people assume something can't happen because the other says no at the start. And there are also many people who say no habitually because the people that ask often don't even want what they ask. And anyone who gives up after the first no.... welll...... Let's say that some people go by "Don't take no for an answer" and then 99% of other people go by "no, it can't work, because X Y and Z". Many times someone who says no will say yes if a more creative proposal is proposed, or when the person pushing for something does his best and tries hard to take away the issues that the other person has, which often come down to not understanding the solution yet in full. There is often a misunderstanding at play and if you can find the places where you disagree, you may find that there is a solution that will satisfy both. But the person who doesn't try will never get there. What you need to do is seek the common ground. But if Ubuntu wanted a certain feature in its file manager, sure they would be able to get it there. No problem at all. They are not just a reed in the wind, having no power over its own fate. That is just not true. I'm sorry if I don't write very well, I often forget what I want to write the moment I start writing, and my voice is getting subdued. Saying that something is an issue for upstream but not for Ubuntu itself, is making Ubuntu powerless. It is not either/or, it is both and. There may be Ubuntu developers working upstream too. Why do you insist they are two separate worlds. Without Ubuntu, Nautilus would be almost useless, since only Gnome is using it other than that right. Or Mint, I don't know. Gnome Shell is a disease run rampant of people who are cannabalizing their own system. Unity is a program by a corporation that wants to control its image and its product, and wants to maintain custody of everything it does. You can't get Microsoft to change its ways either (or Apple) but if you can make a fair point that THEY can see as being to their advantage, they will certainly heed that. I know Canonical is probably rather headstrong and not always to their own benefit, and the Gnome 'people' just try to be a corporation they are not with customers they don't have. And maybe depending how strong this sentiment is, you won't get anything done. Nevertheless in the case of Ubuntu I believe they ARE interested in improvements they agree with, and they are not beyond hope as the Gnome people are. You could say Ubuntu is itself "upstream". For instance, it would be like saying the KDE team has nothing to say about Kate/Kwrite. Ubuntu has the resources to change Nautilus themselves if they wanted to. I just don't like this defeatist attitude, I'm sorry about my words. Kudos. > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
