On Wed, 2007-08-08 at 10:09 +0100, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > The two are not mutually exclusive, and an ideal solution would incorporate > both.
I can't believe this conversation has gone on this long. Its a really ill conceived idea that is either not explained very well, or has evolved during this thread. First of all, the OP wants a one click install. But we already have that in GDebi, and the upcoming apt:// protocol. If you publish software and use the software out of the Ubuntu repositories, both protocols will use the underlying APT system to pull dependencies, and install in a safe and sane manner. If you are not building based upon the Ubuntu core, you are more likely to brick your system than to get any great functionality... so why would we encourage that behavior.... because Microsoft does? Can we find a better one? Microsoft does not have to worry about different distros and the OP is all upset that Linux can not reach it full potential until some high school kid from Tallahassee, Rio, or Queensland can simply compile there software, post it on the web, and allow it to be installed on all the distros. The problem is that this is not possible. The impossibility does not come from a technical problem, but instead a political one. Technical problems can be overcome with hard work and technology. Political problems will tie you up in knots for decades without any resolution. The real problem is that not all system use LSB nor do all system distribute their software as binaries. Those distros that don't follow LSB will surely break if you install software that does. Due to the nature of Linux, you can not enforce LSB. Heck, LSB even leaves vague where several key items should be placed (lets start with /opt vs /usr/local or /usr/games vs /usr/shared/games) Therefore, any one size fits all installer will surely only serve a small portion of the install base. As an example, I saw talk of re-inventing alien. But a better Alien is only solving the RPM->DEB or DEB->RPM issue. Lets not forget Gentoo's portage system and all its descendants like T2, Rock, Puppy, etc. If one size truly fit all, ever woman in America should be walking around in a Muumuu. Ladies? Guys want to suggest this to your lady? The reason is that women are not all walking around in muumuus is the same reason this idea will fail... One size does not fit all, and different systems will require different solutions. Viva la difference! While the dream is nobble, and probably worth while, this is not the solution. A better solution would be from the compilation and tools side. A better solution would be to provide a single tool that takes the code, and packages it for deb, rpm, ipkg, tar.gz, and an ebuild all in one command. Then package it up with a solid testing and approval process that makes it easy to get it into the approved repositories for each distro. Maybe a clearing house system for packages. Once an independent developer builds their new nifty widget generator, the nwg project could be posted easily to all the major (and even minor) projects all at once. Without running software though the various testing processes to insure it is safe, we will have the same problem that has Microsoft in the situation they are in right now. Microsoft has such a commanding lead, and there market share is slowly dwindling. The battle is being lost in Redmond, and stability, viruses, bloat, and cost are all playing their part. Linux has MS on all these parts. Linux is more popular than ever. Why would we ever want to begin copying Microsoft's bad habits. One step installer sounds great, but it can not be done safely. As for the OPs problem with Synaptic... That is 500% off base. I know this because I have sat down with end users and showed them synaptic, and the gnome installer. If more geeks like us did this with their favorite Windows user, I believe there would be more people asking why Windows does not install as nicely as Linux. Want proof? http://windows-get.sourceforge.net/ Has anyone stopped to think that in our quest to solve bug #1, that the answer is not to make Linux behave like Windows, but instead, show Windows users a taste of what Linux does well. Linux already does package management well... very well. Now can we get onto other problems???? -- Kevin Fries Senior Linux Engineer Computer and Communications Technologies, Inc. a division of Japan Communications, Inc.
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