Hello all, I have read the thread; here's my input. > > Sounds like you want a specialized tool like fonty-python, designed > > for people who do this kind of work. > No! If properly implemented, most people would (almost) never have to > do anything that they don't do now. > I agree with Jan. If the font chooser dialogues that users see are flexible then they can show an initial choice of simple, appropriate fonts thus making life easy for an 'average' user.
There is no clash between empowering font choosers and ease-of-use. > And the way Fonty-Python works is a hackish workaround, as the author > says himself > Yes - FP is a hack. It could be great if: 1. It was written in native code (not relying on a bunch of python libs). 2. There was a way to HIDE fonts from fontconfig EXCEPT those that are in ~/.fonts (thus cutting down the chooser clutter) This sounds like a simple solution -- and perhaps it can be -- but it is not an elegant one. > > What I'm concerned with in this thread is the experience of an average > > user, who cares very little about fonts, just wants their applications > > to work, and be able to display readable text in their language. We > > want to have the simplest, cleanest infrastructure to provide this. > Again, there is no clash. Any 'average' user will want a short list of fonts that work in their locale. They will not (I am sure) want a list that is longer than their arm. If they install new fonts (or other apps install them unbeknownst to them) then the choosers start to grow. This is the problem. If we give an average user a way to *filter* the fonts offered in a chooser, then we are empowering them. There should exist a default category (or locale-set, or whatever the term is) that shows only the common fonts (for the given locale) that users will want 99% of the time. Equally, a mere click away, is the choice of many other fonts, under their own category headings. Furthermore, the user could spawn a 'manager' window where they can collect fonts (from the system (fontconfig supplied) and from arbitrary directories/devices) and poke them with a stick: tag them, collect them, sort them, search them, see them in different sizes, view the glyphs, etc. Those collections can then be chosen in the chooser, thus listing only the fonts that the user put into it. NB: This does not mean that any fonts are being 'uninstalled' - they are merely not being listed at the moment. Again, this empowers users. I am not sure where the solution lies. If anyone can correct me, here is my basic grokking: 1. fontconfig collects fonts and makes font information (name and meta data) available to other programs. 2. Those programs are responsible for *how* they present that information to end-users OR they can use GTK's default control. 3. GTK (I assume) has a "font-chooser" control and *it* calls upon on fontconfig to stuff itself with fonts. So, apps can call upon fontconfig (rare) OR call upon GTK (common) to get an array of fonts and related information -- that is what we see in the font-choosers. Given this, the obvious place to engineer this font manager is in that GTK control. So, why not try to extend it's capacity while keeping it working like it does now? New apps can send extra parameters to it and trigger the more advanced display, while older apps will simply get the old chooser without filtering. Better yet, create the functionality so that other toolkits can implement the gui front-end of their choice (MVC) and call on the font managing power of the back-end - thus we enable other toolkits too. Enlightenment? Qt? Am I smoking my socks? :D Regards, Donn. (I should mention that I can only code Python and Co. So I am really saying "someone else should do this". Sorry.) -- "Hath not a Jew eyes?" asked Shylock. Today the question is more pointed: Hath not a Jew--or an Arab, or an African, or a baby, or a dog--a cerebral cortex and a thalamus? The undeniable fact that we are all made of the same neural flesh makes it impossible to deny our common capacity to suffer. -- Steven Pinker -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
