Hi, Well if that's already decided, then there isn't much point for a full session.
At that point the only remaining questions are Do we stop pre-installing Flash from the proprietary checkbox in installer? Do we start click-to-play before Mozilla? I'm 99% sure that freshplayerplugin isn't a supportable option, we would need Mozilla's endorsement of it and I don't see why they would give it. Kind regards, Bryan On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Chris Coulson <[email protected]> wrote: > On 19/10/15 18:31, Bryan Quigley wrote: >> Hi Chris, >> >> The "do nothing" plan in this case would result in features being >> taken away during the primetime* life of the 16.04 LTS. If we >> knowingly can't support them for even 2 years (likely more like 1 >> year), should the LTS include them at all? >> >> 1- Minimal option: >> Just mention that the support will drop in the release notes, follow >> Firefox's lead for alerting users. >> Stop installing Flash in the Ubuntu installer >> >> 2 - Slightly more aggressive than Mozilla: >> Turn on click-to-play ahead of Mozilla >> >> 3- Aggressive option: >> Disable NPAPI for 16.04. >> >> Obviously, we can separate NPAPI vs Flash-NPAPI if we want in the above. >> >> I would rather users realize they also need Chromium/Chrome in their >> environments when they first install 16.04 rather than a random number >> of months later. If we don't at least do 1 we're just asking for >> trouble, I think doing number 3 for general NPAPI isn't that out of >> the question. >> >>> most sites that use Flash continue to work fine with the exception of >>> things like Amazon Video >> I'm guessing most users have switched to Google Chrome for them. Many >> sites that don't need DRM don't use Flash anymore anyway. >> >> I'll see if I can get a better answer for Adobe. Obviously EOY 2017 is >> very different than February 2017. >> >> Kind regards, >> Bryan >> >> *First two years, until the next LTS is released. >> >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Chris Coulson >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On 12/10/15 20:39, Bryan Quigley wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Mozilla has announced their plan to drop NPAPI support for everything >>>> but Flash at the end of 2016[1]. That got me thinking that we might >>>> have to drop it sooner than that for 16.04 LTS [2] - which is what >>>> happened fro Chromium for 14.04 LTS. Flash (NPAPI Linux) is also >>>> possibly going EOL for Firefox in February 2017 which might be good to >>>> talk about again as well. >>>> >>>> We previously talked about Flash and NPAPI last November [3][4]. We >>>> didn't believe at the time that Ubuntu alone had the pull to greatly >>>> change Flash use, and I don't think that's changed. >>>> >>>> If we do nothing for 16.04 LTS, then for Firefox: >>>> 8 months after released all plugins (aside from flash) stop working >>>> 10 months after release Flash is no longer maintained >>>> >>>> Flash 11.2 has also become less useful thanks to dependencies on hal >>>> [5] which is longer in Ubuntu, so many sites just don't work. Also >>>> getting them to drop gtk2 should make it easier to maintain Firefox. >>>> These are really only relevant if we can get Adobe to commit to >>>> support Flash 11.2 for longer. >>>> >>>> I'm happy to ask upstream if we can have some people from Mozilla join >>>> us in a UDS session too, but it makes sense to hash this out a bit >>>> here first. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> Bryan >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/ >>>> [2] >>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.tech.plugins/sdLQgvG84uM >>>> [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZCVuy4ugDc >>>> [4] >>>> http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uos-1411-adobe-flash-on-firefoxlinux-eol/4MgjOcm3Oc >>>> [5] >>>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/fixing-amazon-prime-streaming-drm-protected-flash-13-10?utm_source=feedly >>>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I didn't feel that the session last time was all that useful - it >>> basically acknowledged that Flash on Linux is going EOL and that there >>> isn't much we can do about it. What has changed since then and what sort >>> of outcome are you looking for that would make an UOS session worthwhile >>> for this? >>> >>> AFAICT, the outcome at the end of any session will be the same: Mozilla >>> will still be planning to drop support for non-Flash NPAPI plugins >>> sometime next year, they still won't have any plans to support PPAPI >>> plugins, they'll still be investing in Shumway, Adobe will still be >>> planning to stop providing updates to Flash 11.2 based on some >>> non-public timetable (but we expect it to be sometime in 2017), and we >>> will keep distributing Flash 11.2 via the partner archive to all Ubuntu >>> releases for as long as it's supported. >>> >>> I wouldn't expect Adobe to spend time porting a piece of software that >>> they've deprecated and are only providing security fixes for to newer >>> technologies (eg, gtk3, away from HAL). Speaking as the Firefox >>> maintainer, the current plugin really doesn't cause any problems for >>> Firefox maintenance at the distro level (there might be some burden >>> upstream, but Flash already works fine in gtk3 Firefox). And I think >>> you're over-exaggerating the impact of not having DRM support (because >>> of the HAL dependency) - most sites that use Flash continue to work fine >>> with the exception of things like Amazon Video, which haven't worked out >>> of the box on Ubuntu since we dropped HAL from the default install >>> (IIRC, sometime around 2010). If there really was a big demand for this, >>> we'd have fixed it 5 years ago. I even wrote a wrapper to make it work, >>> but there wasn't much interest in it >>> (https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+junk/flash-hal-helper). >>> >>> Regards >>> - Chris >>> >>> -- >>> ubuntu-desktop mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop > Hi, > > Just to be clear, we're not going to be making changes to Firefox that > remove support for plugins ahead of Mozilla doing so. We're going to > continue distributing Flash via the partner archive until Adobe stop > supporting it, and this will continue to work in Firefox on Ubuntu until > Mozilla decides to drop support for it (or blacklists it because it's no > longer getting updates). > > Regards > - Chris > > -- > ubuntu-desktop mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list [email protected] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
