Hi Bill,
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 2:56 AM, J. William Campbell
<jwilliamcampb...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 5/26/2011 6:27 AM, Graeme Russ wrote:
>>
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> OK - Starting a new thread to discuss implementation details. This is a
>> heads-up for arch/platform maintainers - Once this is a bit more stable, I
>> will put it on the wiki
>>
>> Assumed Capabilities of the Platform
>> - Has a 'tick counter' that does not rely on software to increment
>
> Hi All,
> The nios2 with the most basic timer does not meet this requirement. It
> will not count at all without the 10 ms interrupt. I don't think this
> requirement matters anyway. We need a 'tick counter' that 'ticks'. If it
> takes software to make it tick, we don't much care. There may be problems
> with early use of udelay in that case, but that is a different issue.
I think we will need to define get_timer() weak - Nios will have to
override the default implementation to cater for it's (Nios') limitations
>> - tick interval may by a fixed constant which cannot be controlled
>> via software, or it could be programmable (PIT)
>>
>> API Functions (/lib/timer.c)
>> - u32 get_timer(u32 start)
>> - Returns the number of elapsed milliseconds since 'start'
>>
>> API Functions (/arch/...)
>> - void udelay(u32 delay)
>> - Used for 'short' delays (generally up to several seconds)
>> - Can use the tick counter if it is fast enough
>> - MUST NOT RESET THE TICK COUNTER
>
> There is a requirement that udelay be available before relocation and before
> the BSS is available. One can use the tick counter to provide udelay as long
> as sync_timebase is not called OR sync timebase does not use BSS. It appears
> many implementations ignore this requirement at present. We should try to
> fix this, but is should not be a requirement.
If you really wanted to, sync_timebase() could use global data (it doesn't
have many static variables) in which case all timer functions would be
available before relocation
>>
>> 'Helper' Functions (/lib/timer.c)
>
> I think this function should be weak, so that it is possible for people to
> override it with a "custom" function. The fully general sync_timebase has
> lots of code in it that can be simplified in special cases. We want and need
> a fully general function to be available, but other users who are real tight
> on space may want a cut down version. We should make that easily possible.
Agree
>>
>> - void sync_timebase(void)
>> - Updates the millisecond timer
>> - Utilises HAL functions to access the platform's tick counter
>> - Must be called more often than the rollover period of the
>> platform's tick counter
>> - Does not need to be called with a regular frequency (immune
>> to interrupt skew)
>> - Is always called by get_timer()
>> - For platforms with short tick counter rollovers it should
>> be called by an ISR
>> - Bill Campbell wrote a good example which proved this can be common
>> and arbitrary (and optionally free of divides and capable of
>> maintaining accuracy even if the tick frequency is not an even
>> division of 1ms)
>>
>> HAL Functions (/arch/... or /board/...)
>> - u64 get_ticks(void)
>
> For what it's worth, I would like to propose using a (gasp!) typedef here.
> It seems to me there are a whole lot of cases where the max number of ticks
> is a u32 or less. In those cases, the wrap at 32 bits helps things a lot. If
> the tick counter is really 64 bits, the function of sync_timebase is simply
> to convert the tick value to millisec, and that is it. Otherwise, if it is
> 32 bits or less then some other actions will be required. I think this is
> one of those times where a typedef would help, We could define a type called
> timer_tick_t to describe this quantity. That would allow a pure 32 bit
> implementation where appropriate.
>
> Another suggestion is that perhaps we want a u32 get_ticks_lsb(void) as well
> as a regular get_ticks. The lsb version would be used for udelay and could
> possibly come from another timer if that was necessary/desirable. See the
> requirement for early udelay early availability.
I think this all adds unnecessary complexity
>> - Returns a tick count as an unsigned 64-bit integer
>> - Abstracts the implementation of the platform tick counter
>> (platform may by 32-bit 3MHz counter, might be a 16-bit
>> 0-999 microsecond plus 16-bit 0-65535 millisecond etc)
>> - u64 ticks_per_millisecond()
>> - Returns the number of ticks (as returned by get_ticks()) per
>> millisecond
>
> I think ticks_per_sec would be a better choice. First, such a function
> already exists in almost all u-boots. Second, if one wants the best accuracy
> for things like udelay, you need better accuracy than millisec. Since this
> function is used only infrequently, when things are initialized, a divide to
> get ticks_per_millsec (if that is what you really want) is no big deal.
> Lastly, I think this function can remain u32. Yes, there is a 4 GHz limit on
Don't underestimate the ability of existing platforms to already exceed
this limit - Scientific equipment can easily have a 1 nano second tick
counter (with extreme precision)
> the clock rate. If this ever becomes an issue, we can change the type to
> timer_tick_t. When the CPU clock rate gets quite high, it is an advantage to
> divide it down for performance measurement anyway. The AMD/Intel chips
> already do this. If the hardware doesn't do it, shift the timer value right
> two bits. I doubt you will miss the 0.4 nanoseconds resolution loss from
> your 10 GHz timestamp.
Why mess around with bit shifting (which you would then have to cludge into
your platform code) when carting around a 64-bit value is relatively cheap,
transparent and poratble (all all supported up-to-date tool chains)
>> - void timer_isr()
>> - Optional (particularly if tick counter rollover period is
>> exceptionally log which is usually the case for native 64-bit tick
>> counters)
>> - Simply calls sync_timebase()
>> - For platforms without any tick counter, this can implement one
>> (but accuracy will be harmed due to usage of disable_interrupts()
>> and
>> enable_interrupts() in U-Boot
>>
>> So to get the new API up and running, only two functions are mandatory:
>>
>> get_ticks() which reads the hardware tick counter and deals with any
>> 'funny
>> stuff' including rollovers, short timers (12-bit for example), composite
>> counters (16-bit 0-999 microsecond + 16-bit millisecond) and maintains a
>> 'clean' 64-bit tick counter which rolls over from all 1's to all 0's. The
>
> I think it is the task of get_ticks to return the hardware tick counter as
> an increasing counter, period. The counter may wrap at some final count
> that is not all ones. That is ok. Sync_timebase deals with the rollovers if
The hardware tick counter may, the 64-bit software tick counter maintained
by get_ticks() may not
> necessary. get_ticks is very lightweight. get_ticks should deal with
> decrementing counters by returning the complement of the counter. The sc520
> case is a bit more complex if you intend to use the 0-999 and 16 bit
> millisec registers, in that you do need to add them to the previous value to
As I mentioned in another post, this is a problem for the platform
maintainer and is abstracted away throught the platform specific
implementation of get_ticks()
> make an increasing counter. Sync_timebase "likes" short counters in that
> they are easy to convert to millisec and tick remainders.
The compiler should handle using 64-bit rather than 32-bit transparently
>> 64-bit tick counter does not need to be reset to zero ever (even on
>> startup
>> - sync_timebase tacks care of all the details)
>
> True, but sync_timebase does have to be initialized (as does the timer
> itself in most cases, so this is not a restriction).
This can be done in timer_init() via a call to sync_timebase() after the
timer has been configured. This should bring everything into line
>> ticks_per_millisecond() simply return the number of ticks in a millisecond
>> - This may as simple as:
>>
>> inline u64 ticks_per_millisecond(void)
>> {
>> return CONFIG_SYS_TICK_PER_MS;
>> }
>>
>> But it may be trickier if you have a programmable tick frequency
>
> You will have to call the routine that initializes sync_timebase. This
> routine should have a name, like void init_sync_timebase(void)?
>>
>> The optional timer ISR is required if the tick counter has a short roll
>> over duration (short is up to you - 1 second is short, 1 hour might be, 1
>> century is not)
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Graeme
>>
> It is probably true that sync_timebase should have a parameter flag. The
> reason is that if the timer isr is called only when the timer wraps, then
> the calls to sync_timebase may be slightly more than a full timer period
> apart. (due to interrupt latency). Therefore, when the timer difference is
> computed, if the current update is due to a wrap AND the previous update is
> due to a wrap, the difference should be approximately 1 wrap. If it comes up
> real short, you must add a wrap. This isn't necessary if the routine is
> called more often than once per wrap. Also, when sync_timebase is called in
timer_isr() MUST be called more often than the rollover period of the
underlying hardware tick counter - This is a requirement
> get_timer, you must first disable interrupts and then enable interrupts
> after sync_timebase returns
Why? - get_ticks() provides an atomic read of the hardware tick counter.
If get_ticks() needs to disable and enable interrupts to do so, that is a
problem for the platform maintainer
Admittedly, sync_timebase() will not be re-entrant, but how will it ever
be called concurrently? - Ah, I see - a call to get_timer() interrupted
by the timer ISR :)
Regards,
Graeme
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