I don't think there's any new argument to address, so I will just offer a pointers into where these issues are discussed in 'Trust is non-negotiable'.

Section 3.3 [1] looks at how trust negotiation (as an abstract mechanism) changes incentives to divergence for existing root programs, as well as the consequences of enabling the deployment of new root programs with divergent policies. Unfortunately, fragmentation is often an insidious, gradual process that arises from many actors making independent decisions that prioritize their own needs, in the absence of any ecosystem forces strong enough to bring them together. It doesn't have to be a goal that is pursued deliberately, although it can also be (e.g. market differentiation or enshittification).

Separately, structural barriers to deployment of a new technology, which impact certain constituencies much more than others, are a common cause of ecosystem fragmentation. The specific design of TAI has serious issues in this regard which are laid out in section 4.6 [2].

The argument that this fragmentation is possible with existing mechanisms like certificate_authorities is evaluated at the end of the section 3.3 [3]. These extensions do not have any meaningful existence in the wild for the purposes of server certificate negotiation and it's running code that counts here. Further, for the same reasons that the TAI authors identified these extensions as an unsatisfactory solution for their needs, it is unsuitable for anyone else trying to deploy trust negotiation at scale.

Finally, as is discussed throughout Section 3, I disagree there is any security tradeoff at the heart of this issue. We've shipped many many improvements over the past 10+ years through the steady ratcheting of root program policies. Instead, I believe barriers to further improvements are predominantly found server-side, in the level of investment that server operators (and to a lesser extent CAs) are willing to make in terms of libraries, automation and tooling. Trust negotiation does nothing to address these issues, which are largely societal rather than technical.

Best,
Dennis

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jackson-tls-trust-is-nonnegotiable#section-3.3

[2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jackson-tls-trust-is-nonnegotiable#section-4.6

[3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jackson-tls-trust-is-nonnegotiable#name-alternative-paths-to-abuse

_______________________________________________
TLS mailing list -- tls@ietf.org
To unsubscribe send an email to tls-le...@ietf.org

Reply via email to