to Jon Seager re: flavors using ubuntu-desktop-installer
I'm a Lubuntu member, so I'll share my 2c worth her, and this maybe an indication of how I was to vote, if Lubuntu held a vote for its members on which installer. I don't like the forced-format of `ubuntu-desktop-installer` which was added late in the noble cycle when `ubuntu-desktop-provision` was added... ie. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop-provision/+bug/2058638 etc The *fix released* for 24.04 initial release was the 'forced format' as there was insufficient time to fix the problem that had been discovered, and I was told the forced-format would be removed for subsequent respin ISOs, though I was warned it may not be by 24.04.1, but should appear first with 24.10. Both 24.04.2 & 25.04 have now released, and format of `/` is still forced. Use of the calamares installer does NOT mandate formatting of `/` due to an unfixed issue. I gather the forced-format doesn't impact many users, thus the reason why the planned fix hasn't been allocated resources; but that to me is a useful feature, and something that I've always loved about Ubuntu (and ubiquity)... the ability to quickly re-install the system to fix packaging mistakes/booboos due to problems. I used it twice during the plucky cycle (problems after python3.12 updates). Lubuntu and flavors use of `calamares` does NOT mandate a forced format of `/` on install. Chris g. On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 12:16 AM Jon Seager <jon.sea...@canonical.com> wrote: > Hi all > > I wanted to follow up on this, since Aaron and I have been in contact off > the mailing list, and we both agree that it's worth summarising the > conversation here, too. > > Firstly, off the back of this request, Aaron asserted that it would be > helpful if there was a concrete definition of what makes a flavour. Such a > document is in the (very) early phases of being drafted with the Community > Team, who will be reaching out shortly to socialise that document and > collaborate on it with the flavour leads. I noted, however, that the > document would likely state that flavours must use the Ubuntu Installer. > > Aaron emailed me regarding both Lubuntu and Kubuntu - with the former > representing a slightly easier case. Migrating to the new installer > wouldn't have been Lubuntu's choice. Some functionality will be lost, but > it's less clear that there is any "hard dependency" on that functionality. > > With Kubuntu, things are a little more complicated because KFocus uses > more of Calamares' features, including the ability to provide it a > configuration for a preset partition map. In particular they stipulate a > btrfs filesystem with specifically named subvolumes which are required for > their rollback mechanism to function. > > I have subsequently spoken with Dan Bungert (subiquity lead) who believes > it will be possible to satisfy that use case with subiquity before 26.04. > He'll be doing some spec work in the 25.10 cycle, with a view to getting > code landed in the 26.04 cycle. He'll also be working on the manual > partitioning story for the Ubuntu Installer. > > My proposal is that Kubuntu ship the Ubuntu Installer *by default* from > now on, but up to and including 26.04, Kubuntu can also ship an alternate > edition/ISO that still uses Calamares. This will ensure that KFocus, and > users of the existing stack will still see some continuity in the case that > the subiquity features are not landed in time for 26.04. My understanding > is that again this is not preferred, but is technically feasible. > > I still haven't heard from Ubuntu Budgie - but I'm hoping to get some > comms with them soon to understand how we can support the transition. > > Regards, > Jon > > On Fri, 2 May 2025 at 11:23, Jon Seager <jon.sea...@canonical.com> wrote: > >> Hello there! >> >> As you already know, we've been working on a new and improved Ubuntu >> Desktop installer [1], consisting of subiquity on the backend, and a new >> Flutter based frontend. We rolled this out incrementally as we tested the >> installer, but it is now considered stable. >> >> In addition to serving Canonical's own needs for Ubuntu Desktop, we >> wanted to make sure that the installer was going to be adaptable to >> different flavours, and as such the installer allows for custom artwork and >> accent colours, and can include a different set of slides according to its >> configuration. Much of that detail can be found in the GitHub repository. >> >> During the release of Ubuntu 25.04, we experienced a number of issues >> with Calamares, mostly relating to a new feature that has ultimately not >> landed in the last release. While this is not systemic to the choice of >> Calamares, it did give me pause for thought about the installer experience >> across Ubuntu. >> >> After some discussion internally, and a discussion with sabdfl, I intend >> to ask all of the flavours to transition to the new Ubuntu Desktop >> installer by 26.04 LTS. Now that it's stable for Ubuntu Desktop, and we >> have evidence from the flavours who've already adopted it, I'm confident >> that this goal is achievable within the timeframe. >> >> Many of the flavours have already migrated to the new installer, >> including Ubuntu Mate [2] and Xubuntu [3]. In fact, the only flavours yet >> to transition are Kubuntu, Lubuntu and Ubuntu Unity. Coincidentally, I >> received some communication from Rick Timmis (Kubuntu) this week, >> indicating that he'd like Kubuntu (and other flavours) to make the move. >> >> The principal reason for this request is consistency: consistency in >> experience for our collective userbase, but also consistency in image >> preparation and release. Our community has an expectation that our >> flavours, while uniquely tailored, are still very much Ubuntu at their >> core. The "Ubuntu experience" includes a robust and consistent installation >> process. We have a dedicated team at Canonical who are actively working on >> features and fixes for subiquity and the desktop installer, so we'll be >> much better placed to support them once they've made the transition. >> >> There are a couple of features that I know are not yet available in the >> new installer. My ask will be that the flavours make the transition, and >> then we collaborate on adding those features to a single codebase that all >> Ubuntu flavours can benefit from. >> >> I've spoken with the lead of subiquity (Dan), and the lead for the >> Desktop Installer (Dennis), both of whom are content to be named points of >> contact for the flavours to assist the transition. >> >> I'm raising this to the TB on recommendation from the Community Team, and >> want to ensure that there is no strong objection to this before carefully >> communicating with the flavours. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jon >> VP Engineering, Ubuntu >> >> [1] https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision >> [2] >> https://github.com/ubuntu-mate/ubuntu-mate-settings/tree/master/usr/share/desktop-provision >> [3] >> https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/master/debian/live/desktop-provision >> > -- > technical-board mailing list > technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board >
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