On Tue, 16 Sep 2014, Adam Levin wrote:
I'm not sure I understand point #2. I mean, what does having a one-on-one
deal have to do with being a professional? I think the population at large
would accept as professional many people who don't necessarily deal
"one-on-one". Or, perhaps we need humpty-dumpty to define "one-on-one"?
I think the most important part of #2 is the "the client can't tell if the work
is right" portion rather than the one-on-one portion.
But if you look at the fields that are unquestionably Professional (with a
capital P), almost all of them do end up involving a lot of one-on-one work.
Even if a large Law or Engineering firm, it's still one-on-one for most work.
David Lang
-Adam
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Miles Fidelman <mfidel...@meetinghouse.net>
wrote:
Brandon Allbery wrote:
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Miles Fidelman <
mfidel...@meetinghouse.net <mailto:mfidel...@meetinghouse.net>> wrote:
Well, ok - but when a word has a well understood definition -
doesn't an alternate definition take us into Humpty Dumpty land?
It can, if used generally without advertising it beforehand. When
presented as it has been here, specifically to get people to think about
the alternative, it's clearly food for thought: how does this notional
definition affect your viewpoint?
Not so much offend, as wondering the point (and maybe being just a bit
snarky - it's been that kind of a day.).
But seriously, returning to the discussion in progress - see comments
below:
--
On Tue, 16 Sep 2014, Paul Heinlein wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2014, David Lang wrote:
Our work sure qualifies under the first point, and while large shops
have checks in place, Snowden has shown that even the NSA can't prevent a
rouge Sysadmin from doing series damage, and is no different than a large
Engineering or Law firm that can attempt to put in similar checks, but
can't possibly hope to prevent all problems.
thoughts?
Most organizations put large obstacles between their sysadmins and a
host of corporate activities, e.g., hiring full-time employees, purchasing
or selling capital assets, entering into binding legal agreements.
Most organizations put obstacles between their sysadmins and a small
subset of data, e.g., employees' self-encrypted files (password managers or
SSH keys), some legal/personnel records.
Few organizations can do more than that without having a huge budget for
both system administration and security. Personally, I wouldn't want to
work for one of them.
I agree, but I was more asking for thoughts on if this was a good
defintiion of "Professional" and if this definition would work any better
than the previous definitions we've tries to use for the term
"professional" and the follow-up discussions on licensing/certification
efforts.
If one is trying to make the distinction of professional vs.
non-professional to other people - like management - changing definitions
seems like a non-starter.
Though perhaps when framed as "when do you NEED a professional," or
certification, or licensing - vs. "what is a professional" - then the
definition might apply.
As suggested by this point:
I think this definition is useful, because it is the first one that I've
seen that is able to draw a line between the Sysadmin who is running their
personal site or a local club/church site (something that I strongly
believe should NOT be regulated/licensed) and someone running a bank (where
they may have people working there who aren't licensed, but it would be
reaonsble to say that the person in charge if not most of the senior people
should be)
Miles Fidelman
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
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