вс, 11 мая 2025 г., 18:03 Paul Goyette <p...@whooppee.com>: > You're asking for a lot, and I am not prepared to spend the time it > would require. I have already updated x86/boot(8) and added a Xr > for mk.conf(5), and if someone wants to write a wiki page I will > happily review/edit it. wiz@ has already created a wiki page (see > https://wiki.netbsd.org/kernel_dir/) that may address some of your > concerns. >
>From this page it looks like kern + modules dir will lost modules arch/version information previously plainly visible in path? > I've also done my best here in this thread (and elsewhere) to make it > as clear as I can that this relates to KERNEL_DIR, and that is only > pertains to i386 and amd64. The option is entirely optional, but the > bootloader needs to cope with both "set" and "unset" environments, to > avoid a proliferation of boot images. > > Most of the impact of KERNEL_DIR is already committed; this newest > proposal is minor and has minimal impact. > > > > On Sun, 11 May 2025, Taylor R Campbell wrote: > > >> Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 06:39:42 -0700 (PDT) > >> From: Paul Goyette <p...@whooppee.com> > >> > >> On Sun, 11 May 2025, Greg Troxel wrote: > >> > >>> Thus I suspect I am missing something. > >> > >> Yup, I think you're missing the fact that all of this relates to the > >> ratther new-ish KERNEL_DIR option, support for which was only recently > >> completed (by myself). KERNEL_DIR is described briefly in options(4), > >> and it is noted in both CHANGES and UPDATING. > >> > >> In short, KERNEL_DIR provides a mechanism to keep a kernel and its > >> associated modules together, addressing one of the most common > >> complaints about modules. > >> > >> Sorry for not making this more clear. > > > > I think it is important to > > > > (a) make this clear and obvious and intuitive, _and_ > > (b) make sure we have tested any plausible transition paths that might > > happen. > > > > To that end, this present proposal aside (I haven't digested it, no > > comments about it), I would strongly suggest that you make a wiki page > > describing everything about the KERNEL_DIR changes (not just the terse > > summary in CHANGES, or the notes in UPDATING which are only for an > > audience of current users to maintain MKUPDATE=yes builds), including > > a systematic table of: > > > > 1. What has changed or will change in the standard bootloader? > > 2. What has changed or will change in a custom bootloader with any new > > build options? > > 3. What has changed or will change in an unmodified GENERIC kernel? > > 4. What has changed or will change in a custom kernel with any new > > build options? > > 5. What does/will sysinst do? > > 6. How are transitions/upgrades expected to happen? What will happen > > when a stock netbsd-10 installation is updated to a stock netbsd-11 > > installation? > > 7. How have all of these scenarios been tested? > > > > We really need to make sure this doesn't become another /var/db/pkg > > renaming debacle that leaves everyone's machines in confusing > > inconsistent states requiring manual intervention. > > > > This type of change -- substantially altering the semantics of how the > > bootloader finds the kernel -- has an extremely high risk, not just of > > putting machines into confusing states, but of rendering them > > unbootable when you update the bootloader. And, if we were doing it > > again, I would ask that any changes be proposed to tech-kern and > > port-*, with all this relevant information, _before_ committing > > anything that affects default builds. > > > > (It's likely that there already are good answers to all of these > > questions, and you've already figured all this out -- it's just not > > clear to me from the CHANGES and UPDATING notes and the scattering of > > commit messages I've seen fly by, so I'm just asking for a clear > > picture to be presented in an obvious place to see how this will > > affect users.) > > > > !DSPAM:6820b69e284681540015745! > > > > > > +---------------------+--------------------------+----------------------+ > | Paul Goyette (.sig) | PGP Key fingerprint: | E-mail addresses: | > | (Retired) | 1B11 1849 721C 56C8 F63A | p...@whooppee.com | > | Software Developer | 6E2E 05FD 15CE 9F2D 5102 | pgoye...@netbsd.org | > | & Network Engineer | | pgoyett...@gmail.com | > +---------------------+--------------------------+----------------------+ >
