Dear John, thank you for helping thinking about the issue.
you mention, at least I recognize, three points:
- planning the mapathon —and let me add— publish this in the wiki, in
compliance to the Organized Editing Guidelines (OEG);
- matching the place to be mapped with the mappers available (that is
either focus on the place to be mapped and establish who should help, or
on the people to introduce to OSM and consequently select a suitable
place.);
- validation and closing the project.
let me first recall the situation and the events, because I think that
OSM should require HOT to review their practices, and that together we
provide some guidance to such beginners chapters, possibly based on the
above three points.
- when in 2018 HOT assigned the 4917 project to OSM user PANAMA Manuel
Quintero, he had very limited experience and proved affinity with the
OSM database and community;
- when in 2019 YouthMappers supported the activity in Guna Nega, they
should have required the opening of a HOT project for the task;
- in 2020 the same should have happened —and they're still on time to do
that— for the scattered emergency mapping in: Río Sereno-Río Guizado;
Volcán-Cerro Punta-Barrio Guadalupe; Boquete-Palmira Abajo; Río
Chiquito/Río Quiqui; Soloy; La Esperanza-San Valentín (falls in the 4917
area);
- This chapter makes no attempt at contacting either the local or the
broader OSM communities, and turns a deaf ear to all input and offers
for assistance, and gets very effective passive support by both YMI and
HOT in their non compliance of the OEG.
back to the three points from your writing:
do you think my "recommendations" for the chapter's 2019 activity are of
any value?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Panam%C3%A1/Reuni%C3%B3n_2019-03-21
regards,
Mario Frasca
On 02/12/2020 16:50, john whelan wrote:
I would suggest that if someone could identify a list of mapping tasks
suitable for beginners that might help this sort of thing happening
again.
I'd done a fair amount of validation of HOT tasks in the past which
I'm sure are similar and I'm more than aware of the amount of effort
needed to validate after new untrained enthusiastic mappers have been
mapping. Especially when they map only a couple of times.
I'm also aware that it does take a lot of knowledge and resources to
clean up afterwards.
Do we need a half page introduction to OSM? Something along the lines
of if you are organising some sort of mapathon these are things you
need to consider and theses are the sort of things that have caused
problems in the past. I get the feeling the enthusiastic organisers
are going to do it anyway but it help help a bit.
It doesn't help the present situation but it might help prevent more
problems in the future.
Cheerio John
On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 16:29 Mario Frasca <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Rory,
let's include the list, so you're talking with the whole
community, not just to me.
BACKGROUND: we're trying to have the YouthMappers Chapter of the
University of Panama consider they're mapping within OSM, that
there's a local community of mappers already mapping, and with
some experience in different fields.
unfortunately, the YMUP Chapter refuses to reply to comments to
their changesets, or to consider complaints about their low
quality of edits, and the sheer mass of beginners they throw into
not-too-simple tasks. recently they had their yearly "Gis Day",
please don't ask me what it is, because I don't know, only that
there's a hashtag being used once a year by the YouthMappers UP
Chapter. also please don't ask me who's inside this chapter,
because I don't know.
when Mateusz wrote to [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> about their organized editing
activity without declaration of intents, the result of his writing
was that HOT opened two projects on top of two areas we from the
community were editing using the tasking manager from
tareas.openstreetmap.co <http://tareas.openstreetmap.co>, forcing
us to clean up the edits while they were coming in. that's
Santiago and Colón.
in Santiago we reverted several changesets, and made the effort to
close their project so they would stay away from the work which
was anyway almost complete.
in Colón we stopped editing downtown, leaving it to the YMUP Chapter.
there's still no published plan from the chapter, Rory says that
they are reviewing the tasks they had opened, but apart from
beginner mapper agreenish
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/agreenish>, arguably adding to
the mass of mistakes, I don't see much editing activity in either
project.
I will write a diary entry, with images, and will try to make it a
structured presentation of what goes on here. there's statistical
data I've collected that shows just how organized the edits from
YMUP, and I find it quite insulting, the mismatch between the
words by YouthMappers International, the call for patience by HOT,
and the continued self-boasting by this local Chapter, while we
need to do the cleaning up.
you know … I am editing Morocco, that's more relaxing. hopefully
no YouthMappers there.
ciao,
Mario
On 02/12/2020 15:52, Rory Nealon wrote:
Hi Mario,
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I will try and contact
the chapter and get an answer for you. The last I heard was that
they had begun to validate the tasks they had created.
Cheers,
Rory
On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 4:53 PM Mario Frasca <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear Rory,
let me insist, I wish to have an estimate of how long we
should wait,
for the YMUP to review their edits?
as you have read from his complaint to YMI, Markusz assumes
something
like "at the end of the day", even if he wrote the complaint
4 days
after the edit — which he fixed himself.
maybe too strict myself, because I would say "the next day",
which could
be "the next available day".
in particular since this looks like episodic edits, not
ongoing activities.
so, what is the time we should allow before concluding they
abandoned
the location?
a week? (slow, but could fit in a low activity group)
a month? (very slow, one forgets what they were doing)
a year? (ah? next group, please?)
best regards, Mario Frasca
--
*/Rory Nealon (he/him)/*
*/Senior GIS Analyst & YouthMappers Activity Manager/*
*/US Agency for International Development/*
*/Washington, DC/*
*/+1 202.468.7890/*
*/GeoCenter MyUSAID Site
<https://pages.usaid.gov/theLab/CGS/geocenter>/*
/*The Geographic Approach to Development
<https://usaid.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.html?appid=92ef58b1014745c5b2a3338c42fd3674>*/
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