I posted a changeset comment in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/76520412
Dec 6, 2020, 08:00 by [email protected]: > Vào lúc 03:01 2020-12-04, Frederik Ramm đã viết: > >> Hi, >> >> when reverting an edit this morning I noticed that the node for >> Washington (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/158368533) has myriad >> name:xx tags, many of which seem to be some variant of "Washington D.C." >> (with or without commas or dots), whereas the "local" name seems to be >> just Washington, without the D.C. >> >> As a native speaker of German I can assure you that we don't call the US >> capital "Washington D.C." as the name:de tag claims; I would assume that >> it is similar for most other languages. The German-language OSM map at >> https://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=10&lat=38.70174&lon=-76.93764 >> has a mechanism where it displays the German name and then, if the local >> name is different, the local name below; since the German name >> "Washington D.C." and the local name "Washington" are different, this >> leads to a somewhat funny display (whereas the logic works ok for other >> US cities). >> >> I could of course fix the German name but I think that it might need a >> more thorough review and I don't feel competent for that. >> >> Two name tags (and this is checking only those that use Roman letters) >> look like they might be entirely wrong and refer to the District of >> Columbia only: >> >> name:lfn=Distrito de Columbia >> name:mi=Takiwā o Columbia >> > > Most of these localized names were added in changeset 76520412 [1] based on > labels on the associated Wikidata item. [2] So this time it was not a case of > promoting a particular minority language. In fact, I don't think much > attention was paid to the names being added, or perhaps the Tajik name > would've remained to the effect of "Washington District of Columbia" instead > of being changed to "Washington (city)". > > This same changeset changed the name of the District of Columbia relation to > "Washington, D.C." in many languages, including English. [3] This results in > Nominatim returning results like "Washington, D.C., Washington, D.C." I think > it was inappropriate to rename the district this way. I think it was another > oversight on the part of the changeset's author, because Wikidata has a > distinct entity for the district. [4] > > [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/76520412 > [2] https://www.wikidata.org/entity/Q61 > [3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/162069 > [4] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3551781 > >> Then again, I've heard people say "I was in D.C." and mean the city, so >> perhaps that *is* a legitimate name for the city? Maybe someone in the >> US community wants to have a look and do this right. >> >> It is a bit of a conundrum in OSM - we usually say that local knowledge >> tops everything, but then again for many of the languages there might >> not even *be* a local Washington mapper in OSM ;) >> > > As others have pointed out, a local would refer to the city as "D.C." even > while acknowledging that the city's formal written name is "Washington" or > "Washington, D.C." I think common sense would require us to relegate "D.C." > to loc_name or short_name, just as a general-purpose, global map would only > shorten San Francisco to the local shorthand "S.F." and Salt Lake City to > "SLC" when space is at a premium. > > Thanks in part to the D.C.-based Voice of America, I'm sure you could find a > local to get the translated name of Washington, D.C., for many languages, but > I'm not confident they would choose the same names as Wikidata. > > For example, both VOA and the local Vietnamese media still generally call the > city "Hoa Thịnh Đốn", a relic of the early 20th century when Vietnamese still > borrowed Chinese characters for world-class cities. "Hoa Thịnh Đốn" is easy > for a Vietnamese speaker to pronounce, but it only kind of sounds like > "Washington" in the way that an eggcorn sounds like its original phrase. It's > archaic and probably unknown to the younger generation in Vietnam. The > Vietnamese government prefers the phonetic respelling "Oa-sinh-tơn", which > conversely is unknown to older Vietnamese Americans. > > When I originally tagged the D.C. node with Vietnamese names in changeset > 5439052, I intended for the fallback to be "Washington", as a compromise > between the traditional and more modern names. But I hesitated to explicitly > tag name:vi=Washington because it's incompatible with the Vietnamese > alphabet. I guess I should've added it as a bulwark against armchair > linguistics. Changeset 76520412 set name:vi to "Washington, D.C.", which to a > Vietnamese speaker is rather like labeling New Orleans as "New Orleans, LA" > on a map. > > Long story short, I find changeset 76520412 to be problematic in the > languages I know, let alone the many languages I don't. Thanks for bringing > it to our attention. > > -- > [email protected] > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-us mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us >
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