On 24/09/2020 00:00, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 5:56 PM Andy Townsend <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 23/09/2020 23:01, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 4:37 PM stevea <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Paul Johnson <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 2. Tagging route information on ways. It's about a decade
too long at this point for ref=* on a way to be completely
disconnected from the entity the tag applies to: That's why
route relations exist. Biggest problem child on this at the
moment: OSM's own tilesets. Let's drop rendering for ref=*
on ways and just render the route relations already, this and
multipolygons are why relations came to exist in the first place.
Yes, 100% agreement. I think this is simply pure inertia
(the kind that says "broken process") on the part of renderers.
Can anybody (renderer authors included, maybe even
especially) are welcome to offer reasons why "the old
machinery" remains in place? Are there legacy use cases that
remain unclear to the wider community? Please tell us here,
if so.
The US is unusual in that it doesn't have a single ref per section
of road. Most places in OSM map what they see on the ground, and
the current OSM Carto rendering works just fine for them
Right up until there's more than one kind of route on the way.
No-one's disputing that this is a major problem for mappers in the US -
I'm just saying that it's really not a major problem in most other
places. That doesn't make it any less of a problem in the US but does
help to explain why people elsewhere seem not to see it as a problem.
It's not strictly a Mapnik problem. It's certainly possible to
render information from relations in Mapnik (I've done it, for
different sorts of relations, and written diary entries about
it). There are a couple of tricky bits* though:
1. You'd need to derive the shields from the ref and the road
itself from the way, and you're going to get some edge cases
where they "don't seem to match".
2. I expect that it would be _really_ difficult to render refs
from relations in the one country where that's needed and refs
from ways in the other 190-odd. The OSM style is a global
style, and that means that local edge cases (which is what the
US is here) can't get the "special-case handling" that might
be nice.
There's no reason the rest of the world shouldn't be mapping routes
this way. For the reason I gave above.
By all means try and persuade the entire rest of the world to do things
differently, but I suspect that that will be unlikely to succeed when
the problem you're trying to solve isn't visible there.
That's why I suggested trying other approaches that would at least
enable people in the US to see route refs rendered as they would expect
them to be.
Best Regards,
Andy
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