The whole proposal is a pragmatic compromise to the fact that we do not
have an usable solution for "grouping" paths within a road corridor. As
we know, relations cannot be used effectively for this at present (if we
are already talking about the "effort" to tag a sidepath with a single
attribute, we don't even have to start talking about relations).
The difficulties of solving this in software have already been reported
here. The problem is rather a niche problem, which from the point of
view of most mappers is quite irrelevant, as it is only a
"user/application problem". However, I don't think we should
deliberately waste potential because we don't want to make concessions
to the needs of applications. Yes, of cause, most applications currently
(necessarily) work successfully without this concept or can adapt
processing-intensive solutions (which fail at edge cases at the latest).
A sidepath concept might offer new possibilities and convenience here
with simple instruments.
So it's a trade-off between "how much effort is it to map" and "how much
easier can it make use of data". Those who don't want to map it, of
course, don't map it, as usual. But those who want to map (or use) it
could use a pre-prepared and discussed solution instead of always coming
up with new taggings for this. Because at the moment a sprawl of
different approaches for the same problem is developing here again (e.g.
"cycleway=sidepath", "street:name", "side_road"...). That's ok, that's
how OSM works. But we can also guide and discuss such a solution finding
process. I don't know if "is_sidepath" is a good solution for this, so
I'm trying to start a discussion to maybe optimise it or find a better
solution.
By the way: I like the analogy with "dual_carriageway", because I like
to use this tagging very much. As a mapper who also do (rather basic)
data analyses and evaluations, it has opened up many new possibilities
for me.
Am 02.12.22 um 15:02 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging:
"or only with the significant effort of using geometric processing
(which most applications can't perform)"
why doing it manually would be preferable?
Is it repeating mistake of adding pointless work for mappers
because it "causes extra preprocessing for routing software."?
And valuing time of mappers as worth nothing?
(PTv2 asks mappers to do something derivable from highway=bus_stop
location and roads within bus relation, massive amount of work
of mappers wasted to do preprocessing manually
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?oldid=625726 )
Whyhttps://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24034881
needs to be preprocessed manually?
The same forhttps://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1111788729
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/118390194
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/233305340
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/119380508
(all examples from the proposal)
Or is it justifiable because it is outright impossible to do reliably
with automatic preprocessing?
(that is the justification for
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:dual_carriageway%3Dyes
)
If yes, can you give examples where it would be beneficial
and explicitly ask to introduce such tagging solely in
cases where preprocessing is doomed to fail?
If it is second case of preprocessing being impossible -
why do massive duplication and ask to duplicate ref value
AND name value AND highway value?
------------
Also, I think that
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/119380508 is clearly a sidewalk
of that road.
2 gru 2022, 13:31 odsupap...@riseup.net:
Paths and ways along a road can be mapped separately in OSM, but those
separate geometries cannot be identified as part of the road, or only with
the significant effort of using geometric processing (which most
applications can't perform). However, the information whether a path is
attendant to a road or not is important for many use cases and can offer
various advantages.
Therefore, a sidepath concept using the tag "is_sidepath" as an additional tag on ways (in particular cycle ways or foot paths) is proposed to indicate whether a way is related/attendant to a road (i.e. adjacent and parallel to a road) or whether it runs independently/isolated without any relationship to a road. Furthermore, an extended set of sub-tags is proposed to allow to explicitly tag important road attributes on the sidepath itself.
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Key:is_sidepath
You can discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page or here.
Best, Alex
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
