Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> writes: > On 14/10/22 23:40, Greg Troxel wrote: >> Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> writes: >> >>> On 13/10/22 02:42, Evan Carroll wrote: >>> In some places the local authorities have lots to do with landuse and >>> everything to do with zoning. To the extent of taking people to court >>> and forcing them to stop their present landuse. >> Of course they do. But you are blurring two things: >> >> OSM maps actual land use. OSM does not map zoning. >> >> Governments use zoning to control landuse. So after they have >> controlled there is an actual landuse to map. >> >> So the government using force to control landuse is not something we >> map. Given that, I don't see what point you are trying to make. > > OSM does not map illegal activity.
Taken to the extreme, perhaps, but we are talking about things that are done in the open and clearly visible to all. Landuse, by its nature, occurs on timescales of months or longer. It is obvious that the authorities are just as aware of landuse as a local mapper. Applied to this discussion, the concept of declining to map landuses that are contrary to zoning is totally ridiculous. Just in case you aren't trolling, I'll substantively reply. Landuse issues in the US are civil not criminal, and I suspect that's similar in many places. The edges of what is permissible under zoning, or under contractual land use rules, is fuzzy, and difficult to figure out, even for people that understand the zoning rules. I'm simply stating the obvious: if there is a shop selling things, clearly visible to anyone, it's entirely appropriate to put landuse=retail on the parcel that contains the shop (and not much else non-shop-related), regardless of zoning, and without even trying to understand zoning. Similarly for other landuses. If the government later shuts down the shop because of zoning, and it's torn down and a house built, then certainly change the landuse. But an OSM person looking up zoning and deciding that a shop shouldn't be there and not mapping it -- is crazy. An OSM person being *obligated* to do that is beyond crazy. Related to "illegal activity", there's another common case in the US which is shops selling marijanuna (cannibis; not sure of the international usage), some for medical use, and some for recreational use. In many states, the state government issues licenses and taxes these stores. People say -- and they are either confused or being intellectually dishonest, hard to tell -- that such stores are "legal in Massachustts". But Federal law entirely prohibits anything to do with marijanuna, so the activity is not legal -- it is merely not contrary to state law. It is thus in a class with export control violations and evasion of Federal taxes, which are also not specifically prohibited in state law, but nobody would say those are "legal in Massachustts". This week, as for the last several years, Federal drug laws that prohibit marijanuna aren't being enforced against these stores. But other federal laws, even though those acts are *not* contrary to state law, are still being enforced. This is all a strange situation, but that's how it is. I expect other places have different strange situations. As far as "illegal" goes, pot shops are vastly more illegal than a use which is pushing the edge of zoning, but might be found by the Zoning Board of Appeals to be a preexisting nonconforming use, and thus allowed to continue, were there to be a complaint. My area has such tussles, and nobody can guess how the Board is going to rule, and whether that ruling, either way, would survive ruling by the courts. An example is a used car sales place that later rents out space to store school buses overnight. A pot shop is blatantly and clearly a violation of Federal law, and that is a criminal issue with severe penalties, vs a business being told "no you can't store buses any more". So, does OSM have a policy against putting marijauna stores on the map? A quick check shows a number of them. Obviously there is no enforced policy of declining to map stores whose business is unlawful.
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