Preliminary remark: I have walked and hiked, done a couple of via ferrata, but so far only heard of scrambled eggs. My only source is the Wikipedia article on "scrambling".
I have detected that in fact I have done some scrambles. Two of them close by. I went back to the tagging and they are tagged with sac_scale <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:sac_scale>=demanding_mountain_hiking (No ropes or similar are present, so they are bordercase to T3). Both are a short pieces of a longer hiking trail (route=hiking) that overall is rated with cai_scale <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/cai_scale>=EE The route is the Alta Via dei Colli Euganei <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1559989>, the to scrambling pieces are way 136822484 <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/136822484/> and way 136822487 <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/136822487> Non ci sono ancora foto su Mapillary. Ho messo un esempio su G-drive. <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RXc9I9prrEf0Gm4szTmzZeSq4CLrGJSE/view?usp=sharing> The interesting thing is that cai_scale (Club Alpino Italiano) is applied to the entire hiking route, i.e. a relation in OSM, whereas the sac_scale (Swiss Alpine Club scale) is applied to the singular way. The concept is that the cai_scale indicates the maximum difficulty of the entire route. This model could be adapted to include scrambles. I think that scrambles could be part of a longer hiking route and can be way properties. The SAC scale could be used (and is being used) to declare ways as scrambles. If an entire route is scrambled we could think about route=scramble, but I fear that many poeple do scrambles without knowing the term. On Thu, 15 Sep 2022, 00:30 martianfreeloader, <martianfreeloa...@posteo.net> wrote: > I am a hiker and a climber, but I made experiences similar to Peter's on > more than one occasion. I have been led along ways by osmand which were > mapped as highway=path; obviously by other climbers. They were > definitely not suitable for folks without climbing experience that want > to go on a physically demanding hike, but don't want to die. > > Imo, scramble would not only include via ferrata. There are many > paths/scrambles where via ferrata equipment is useless, but where you > will still very much need your hands and in many cases risk serious > injury or death if you fall. Yet, these kind of paths/scrambles are > often not considered "real climbing" in the narrower sense (mountaineers > would usually still go without rope). > > On 15/09/2022 00:03, Peter Elderson wrote: > > I am a hiker, not a climber. I remember lots of sections I would have > avoided if the map had shown them as scrambles. More adventurous people > probably would seek them out. I like this proposed highway value. I would > probably apply it to the actual scramble sections, though, not including > path sections leading up to the scramble part. Renderers can then show the > actual scramble sections. For routers, it doesn't really matter, because > when a section of a path is a scramble and you use say a no scramble > profile, the route over the path will get high penalty and will not gain > preference. > > > > If a sign says a path will make you scamble somewhere, map the sign and > the actual scramble(s), that's what I would do. > > > > Peter Elderson > > > >> Op 14 sep. 2022 om 23:47 heeft martianfreeloader < > martianfreeloa...@posteo.net> het volgende geschreven: > >> > >> In the real world, you will *always* find borderline cases for *any* > property. > >> > >> I don't think it should be an argument against a good proposal. If it > were, then it could be used against literally *any* tag on osm. (and > funnily it reliably does come up with any new proposal) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 14/09/2022 22:59, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > >>> The main problem here is that different people will need (or do not > need) to use hands, > >>> it also heavily depends on weather and other considtion > >>> How we would deal with such borderline cases? > >>> via ferrata value is far more likely to succeed and I would recommend > trying to get it first > >>> Sep 14, 2022, 11:42 by hungerb...@gmail.com: > >>> It is proposed to create the tag highway=scramble as a base tag for > >>> hiking paths, where use of hands is required, be that for keeping > >>> balance or be it for pulling up. > >>> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page, > >>> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/highway%3Dscramble > >>> < > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/highway%3Dscramble > > > >>> Thank you in advance > >>> Asa > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Tagging mailing list > >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Tagging mailing list > >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Tagging mailing list > > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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