The documented tag for that is place=locality, an in populated named place. it's rendered and in Nomatnium.
On Sat, 7 Nov 2020, 12:44 pm Martin Søndergaard, <sondergaard...@gmail.com> wrote: > I am also very much a newcomer only having mapped for a few months, and > so far I have constantly been running into the same problems that > are mentioned in this thread. > > I am mapping in Denmark where we have high quality official information on > place names. However, adding much of this information in OSM is very > difficult. In most cases the place names are *not* tied to a single > specific landuse or natural area. Here are a couple examples I have worked > on: > > *Orebanker* - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/861178572 > This is a prominent bank or elongated hill with a single name. However, it > consists of a mix of landuse=forest and landuse=farmland and no obvious > single feature to add the name to. What is the correct way to tag this? > > *Viemosen *- https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/863161581 > This is the name of an area of wetland/meadow, but a part of the area has > been reclaimed for farmland. However, the name officially still applies to > the original area, so it should include the farmland just north of the > meadow. Instead I have had to just add the name to the only feature that > covers most of the area. You could argue that it is better than nothing, > but technically it is slightly incorrect information. > > As a casual mapper mapping this information is really discouraging. Best > case, the names might show up on renders in 5-10 years; worst case, the lag > of standard guidelines on this means that the tagging is wrong or few > people add this information and renderers never render it. > > I understand that tagging standards are based mostly on how many current > features with said tag there are and it is therefore slow to change. And > this process makes some amount of sense for more specialized information. > But for something as basic as "*how do we tag the place name of an area > that is not tied to a single feature?*" it baffles me that there is no > consensus after 16 years. It is clearly a sign that the current process of > agreeing on tagging standards is not working in this specific case. > > /Martin > > On Fri, 6 Nov 2020 at 19:34, Anders Torger <and...@torger.se> wrote: > >> Hello everyone, newcomer here! >> >> I've been a casual contributing mapper for a couple of years here in >> Sweden. Only since 2018 :-O, I thought it was longer, and during this >> time I've made 1700 edits mostly using iD, just started using JOSM for >> some more complex edits. Anyway, I recently tried to up my game to make >> really high quality and "complete" maps in the areas I live. I have a >> lot of local knowledge combined with very high quality government maps >> (already preloaded into the editor, not the highest resolution version, >> but enough for most aspects) together with satellite images which today >> has much better alignment than a few years ago (still government maps >> are best on that). So good reference is there too, I have all I need to >> make a good job. >> >> My areas are bit more rural, more nature. Villages, hamlets and towns. >> Nature is prominent and naming nature is important, many old names but >> still in active use by forestry, outdoor people, hunters and locals. >> When mapping these, I immediately run into basic issues that I'm >> surprised that they aren't solved already. >> >> I'm not 100% sure if this mailing list is the right venue for discussing >> these issues. OSM as a community is quite hard to grasp for a newcomer >> and I have been sent to different places, but now I'm here. >> >> Anyway, my observations (mostly using the default openstreetmap-carto >> style) : >> >> ** Tagging bays and straits as areas work great, as the renderer gets >> and idea how prominent it is and it can make proper text sizing and they >> can be seen even if zoomed out if the area is large. Lots of our lakes, >> even quite small ones have sub-naming, and with these features I can >> make really good mapping of this. >> >> ** Tagging and naming areas on ground does not seem to be developed much >> at all, unfortunately. >> >> ** There is natural=peninsula so one can tag and name an area of varying >> size, but it doesn't seem to render (unless I've made some mistake...) >> >> ** I can't make an area to name hills or slopes, which is very common >> around here (natural=hill would be nice and is more generic than slope). >> There's peak, but that's only for point for the highest peak with >> elevation, so it doesn't the purpose here. >> >> ** Valleys can only be tagged as ways, but here it would make much more >> sense to make an area, as sizes of these valleys vary a lot, and the >> renderer need to know how large this is (not just how long) to make sane >> renders. >> >> ** Due to limitations in area-based name tagging the map looks empty >> just when zoomed out a little, as names disappear almost directly, so >> despite detailed mapping and tagging the overview map is not as useful >> as it could be. While the renderer can and does make proper decisions of >> prominence for bays and strait made as areas, point-based natural names >> often yield strange and misleading maps as vastly different sized areas >> have just a point for the name and no other differentiator, there's no >> way the renderer can make an appropriate render decision as the data is >> not there. >> >> ** Support for group naming is limited. It's here very common that >> several smaller islands are named as a group, smaller ponds are named as >> a group etc, without having individual names. There are tags for that >> (group/cluster), but not rendered. The best alternative today is to make >> it a named multipolygon, but only few renderers make the expected >> result, ie one name rather than only in one subarea or duplicated in all >> areas (which looks strange as the name is often in plural form, or it >> doesn't show up at all if each subarea is small). >> >> ** Another fairly common group naming concept is when each feature has >> its own name, but the group of features have also a separate collective >> name. Maps supporting this concept will thus when you zoom out not show >> the individual names but only the group name. The group/cluster tag >> would perhaps be the way to do this, but as far as I know no current >> style supports it. >> >> ** As a minor note, I've noted there is no good tag for anonymous gravel >> yards, which there are a lot of here. Abandoned quarry is the closest, >> but still not right, as only some actually were gravel/sand pits to >> start with. Those gravel yards are often leftovers from construction >> work or forestry often even locals don't exactly know when or why they >> were made. Today they are used mainly used for parking by people being >> out in nature, but they are not maintained so they are not exactly >> parking lots either. >> >> The central issue here is about naming though, support for group naming >> and the ability to name areas on land which just like bays and straits >> have fuzzy borders (there is no exact start or end of a hill or a >> valley). There is no question about it that the naming I mentioned above >> exist plentiful at least in Sweden, and it's used in Swedish >> general-purpose maps, it's not some special odd feature. >> >> To me, which know very little about OSM and its history, but am used to >> using maps both in digital and paper form, see the ability to name >> groups, and the ability to differentiate size of natural features as >> very basic functions required to produce high quality cartography. But >> OSM is a 16 year old project and still doesn't have widespread support >> for these basic features, essentially making high quality cartography an >> impossibility at least in this part of the world. This is strange, there >> must be something else going on. Maybe it's technically difficult to >> implement. Maybe it's technically difficult to make any new things at >> all as the database has grown. Maybe it's hard to get acceptance for new >> features as the community has grown large and diverse. Maybe OSM is not >> intended for mapping natural features. Maybe the ability to show >> anything useful other than maximally zoomed in isn't a priority. Maybe >> rural areas isn't important to OSM. I don't know. >> >> Oh, while these cartography issues indeed are more prominent in rural >> areas, we do have named areas in denser places in Sweden too like in and >> around Stockholm, it just doesn't hurt as much if you leave out these >> names as there are much other things to navigate by. >> >> Anyway, I'm not really prepared to fight or self-tag 100000 of these >> objects just to try and see if these features might be accepted some >> years from now. I'm basically just checking out the status here to see >> if OSM and I has a future together :-). For my own mapping needs I don't >> absolutely need OSM, I can choose to work with the government data >> instead as much of that has been publically available since 2015. It's >> however nice to be able to contribute to something that is globally >> available with an open license, but great cartography is also important >> to me. I know I will get that from the government data. With OSM it >> seems... ehh... complicated. I'm not really prepared to significantly >> increase my mapping effort (Sweden in OSM is still too a large extent >> unmapped or poorly mapped) if despite exact and fully detailed >> contributions there will still be sub-standard maps coming out of it. >> >> /Anders Torger >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > > > -- > Martin Søndergaard Pedersen > Simonsstraat 108, 2628TK Delft > The Netherlands > +31 (0)6397870004 > sondergaard...@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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