Le sam. 25 janv. 2020 à 15:19, Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> Florimond Berthoux <florimond.berth...@gmail.com>: > >> With a table the pedestrians have to cross the road, it is the opposite >> for the continuous sidewalk that's why I'm in favor to add a new value >> > traffic_calming=continuous_sidewalk >> > > Well, any crossing involves different ways crossing each other, and should > be considered from all angles involved. A way can't cross another way > without being crossed itself. > Crossing key is defined as such «This tag is used for more accurately describing specific types of pedestrian crossings across roads» Continuous sidewalk is a sidewalk, so pedestrian don't cross a road but a sidewalk, so crossing key cannot be applied. > Give ways: >> If there is traffic sign or painting you can add a give way tag. >> If there is none, you cannot add a give way, or you would interpret the >> law which is not on the ground. >> >> Crossing: >> I thought of using crossing key but there are issues: >> - the tag is only for pedestrians crossing the road, where as a >> continuous sidewalk is a sidewalk cross by cars (though we could change the >> definition of crossing to embrace more situations) >> > > I would not even consider that a change: as said above, a way can't cross > another way without being crossed by the other way. > > >> - continuous cycleways exist too (and it’s the main reason I’d like to >> tag them) >> > > In Nederland, cycleways tend to be continuous by design, but that does not > imply anything. All the regular traffic rules apply. Only continuous > pedestrian surface (including elevation, pavement, lining) is significant. > It is in effect a pedestrian area or living street, where other traffic is > tolerated but has no rights. Also, traffic coming from an area like that > has no priority whatsoever. Movements of vehicles on the pavement are > considered "special manoeuvres" and the driver has to give way to all > others. > Yes in Netherland you don't know what crossing a kurb every 50m on bicycle means, but there is a difference of having the cycleway going down to join the level of the road and crossing it than having the cycleway staying higher than the road on a cycleway. not continuous : https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=52.10055&lng=5.086457999999993&z=18.24231017301564&pKey=ZoLEx4v54zKtpXwEAiT_nw&focus=photo 5m further continuous : https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=52.100289999999944&lng=5.086368999999991&z=18.24231017301564&pKey=_hSpfQK3eiU4HbKEEFePIw&focus=photo - it collides with continuous sidewalk, you may have continuous sidewalk >> and a crossing, it’s not a normal case but I have at least one example in >> Paris where zebras were added on a continuous sidewalk, hence the need for >> another tag. >> > > This would just be extra lining to emphasize priority for pedestrians. It > looks like a zebra but It would still be a "continuous_sidewalk" crossing. > Calling it a zebra crossing while it is continuous sidewalk would send the > wrong message. > No, I want to tag both features, I not here to interpret the world, the law or else, I just want to say there is a continuous sidewalk with zebra on it. > For the moment my concern is about would it be possible to have tag >> collision with junction. >> And I just realize that a cycleway can be a junction=roundabout, and >> being continuous at the intersection with roads in and out of the >> roundabout. >> > > That is very common around here for cycleways around a roundabout, but it > doesn't mean anything unless traffic signs (stop signs, give_way signs or > shark's teeth) are present. Pedestrian roundabouts, .i.e. continous sidwalk > around a roundabout, I have never seen that, but if present, it would imply > absolute priority for pedestrians and nothing for cyclists! > > >> So I guess we have to create a key. >> >> > I don't see how that follows from your arguments! > A node on the way where it crosses the middle line of the continuous > pavement (whether drawn as a way or not) tagged with either > traffic_calming=continous_sidewalk or crossing=continuous_sidewalk) covers > all cases mentioned, I think. Just an extra value. > > I think that would be enough for basic rendering, routing and > traffic-oriented maps. > You'll not be able to tag a roundabout on the ways of a cycleway (junction=roundabout) and tag on the way of the continuous cycleway (junction=continuous_sidewalk) since it already have junction=roundabout, two feature on the same tag -> collision. -- Florimond Berthoux
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