On 2017-08-30 13:34, Lukas Sommer wrote: > Voting at > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Language_information > is open. Hi Lukas,
The syntax is wrong. It must be <keyname>:language=<BCP-47 code> (qualifier to the right). Example too language:name=bg --> name:language=bg Many wiki definitions are unclear about term definitions and don't say well why the tag is used. This one too. Because contributors rarely read long explanations, you should briefly say that language=* is used so that programs knew the language of name=* if they want to display a name in a particular language or if they want to use special fonts for a particular language, and then refer to Rationale. For example, people said that name:ja=北京市 is already defined and that language=ja is unnecessary. This means that they did not understand your proposal. An OSM contributor should understand the wiki. The proposition says that language= is not necessary for every name but it is. It is so that software knows that name=* contains e.g. the French name if it asked to use French. Otherwise, the local name=* must be duplicated as name:fr=* I said before that either we use language=* on every name (key) or we rely on *a default* for those having no language=*. That is plain logic. Else there will be names for which software cannot know the value of language=*. (your) example: name:language=ja on all Japanese names or as a Japan default somewhere *in the OSM database*. You replied that language= needs no default. That sentence needs a justification like mine. You replied that Proposed_features/Defaults <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Defaults> is abandoned. First, doing so is a big mistake. Second, doing so does not suppress the need for defaults. You said that that proposition relates only to maxspeed and it's untrue. Lack of defaults is a problem that exists for other keys. Solving the OSM lack of defaults is a priority. I have just repeated a comment about that in "Defaults are paramount" message on this list. The proposition says that OSM.org do intentionally not use tags like name:en, name:ja, name:de… It is not intentional. It's because map tiles can only have one language and it's impossible to display the languages in the user's order of preferences. The proposition says that the BCP-47 codes must be used. But it does not say why codes different from ISO 639 (used by OSM) are necessary and how to use them. You say that Bulgarian Cyrillic is written differently than Russian. Could you show more examples (URLs) that just one word? I have read Bulgarian many times and I never saw a difference. <https://www.google.be/search?&q=site:bg+%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BF+%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0>https://www.google.be/search?&q=site:bg+мап+карта does not show different Cyrillic. Here is their alphabets according to Russian ВикипедиЯ and Bulgarian УикипедиЯ (they should know). Russian А а Б б В в Г г Д д Е е Ё ё Ж ж З з И и Й й К к Л л М м Н н О о П п Р р С с Т т У у Ф ф Х х Ц ц Ч ч Ш ш Щ щ Ъ ъ Ы ы Ь ь Э э Ю ю Я я Bulgarian А а Б б В в Г г Д д Е е Ж ж З з И и Й й К к Л л М м Н н О о П п Р р С с Т т У у Ф ф Х х Ц ц Ч ч Ш ш Щ щ Ъ ъ Ь ь Ю ю Я я What difference do you see exactly? > Example: For the Bulgarian city of Montana use: > > name=Монтана > > language:name=bg > > Usually rendering engines default to russian cyrillic, but this city > is in Bulgary. See here the significant difference in russian > rendering (above) and the bulgarian (below) rendering: > > Montana.svg <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Montana.svg> > > This example is really confusing. You say that Bulgarians write the name as the second line. According the Bulgarian's mouth itself, the bottom name is no Bulgarian for Монтана <https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0> at all. The top one is. In fact, the bottom name is just similar to cursive Cyrillic <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_alphabet#cite_note-cursive-2> in which letter "tee" is written like a "emm" in both Russian and Bulgarian as well as in other Cyrillic languages. Quite a mind boggling script to read for latin users BTW. And indeed, I see on this Монтана map <http://bgmaps.datecs.bg/map/montana> that they use cursive Cyrillic at low zoom but plain Cyrillic at high zoom. Using cursive Cyrillic is not a matter of language but of font. If you use one of these fonts: style="font-family:FreeSerif,Georgia,'Times New Roman','Nimbus Roman No9 L','Century Schoolbook L','Trebuchet MS','URW Bookman L','URW Chancery L','URW Palladio L',Teams,serif" you are using cursive Cyrillic when you are using Cyrillic characters and (funnily) Italic. Here is the correspondence between plain and cursive Cyrillic. а б в г д е ё ж з и й к л м н о п р с т у ф х ц ч ш щ ъ ы ь э ю я /а/ /б/ /в/ /г/ /д/ /е/ /ё/ /ж/ /з/ /и/ /й/ /к/ /л/ /м/ /н/ /о/ /п/ /р/ /с/ /т/ /у/ /ф/ /х/ /ц/ /ч/ /ш/ /щ/ /ъ/ /ы/ /ь/ /э/ /ю/ /я/ And here is your example without the need to use a picture. *Монтана * /* /Монтана/ * / Reply to this message and toggle the Italic format of one of the above lines to see it flip between normal and cursive. Using cursive in Cyrillic is like using italic in latin. And it seems they would sometimes use it in a map and sometimes not. Like on this Монтана map <http://bgmaps.datecs.bg/map/montana> at low zoom or at high zoom. In fact, what Bulgarian also uses is the Latin alphabet (Sofia Софиа), just like Serbian does. For a country like Kurdistan for example, there are three scripts: Latin, Cyrillic and Arabian. Similarly many Asian countries use several *scripts* for *the same language* . Even Chinese can use pinyin, Japanese Romaji, Latin-like characters etc. But which values to use for *:language=* for those different renderings of the same language is not clear. I guess that BCP-47 should be used to distinguish them. But it's not explained how a mapper finds which to use. And hence that BCP-47 should be used in name:?=* too. It should be said !!! I have looked at the names in Sofia. They are just either Bulgarian or English or International. They do not seem to know how to code the Latin alphabet They do not know how "to respect their cultural heritage" !!! I hope this will help you. Cheers André. BTW: You probably mean "add language information to most instances of some key" and not "add language information to most objects and keys".
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