Assuming that the currently under-construction extensions to the lines (the Sha Tin to Central Link) also have a similar loading gauge, should they (East and West Rail Lines, Ma On Shan Line and Sha Tin to Central Link) then all be tagged railway=rail?
For what it's worth, Centamap (non-free map with government source) displays most of the three open lines as a black line with white stripes, but interestingly with the Kowloon Southern Link (a 2009 extension) in a light blue with white stripes like the other MTR lines. Maybe it's just because it was opened by the MTR after the merger of the two systems. jc86035 Michael Reichert: > Hi, > > railway=* should depend on the infrastructure only. The services which > use the track, don't matter. > > Am 22.11.2016 um 15:41 schrieb Michael Tsang: >> On Tuesday 22 November 2016 11:28:00 jc86035 wrote: >>> Should a commuter rail system with rapid transit frequency but main >>> line-standard tracks be tagged as railway=subway or railway=rail? >>> >>> In Hong Kong, the MTR metro system has an "urban" set of DC 1432mm-gauge >>> lines, and another set of AC standard gauge lines (East Rail Line, West >>> Rail Line and Ma On Shan Line) connected to the Guangzhou–Shenzhen railway. >> >> "Use railway=rail for full sized passenger or freight trains in the standard >> gauge for the country or state. >> railway=rail is the largest railway classification, for full-blown >> full-sized >> railways." >> >> My interpretation of the above rule is that, if the section of the railway >> is >> capable for running long distance trains, it should be tagged as >> railway=rail. >> Therefore, East Rail Line in Hong Kong is definitely railway=rail because >> long >> distance and freight trains also run on it. > > I agree up to here. > >> In my opinion, even the metro-only >> sections of East Rail Line where long distance trains do not run should be >> tagged as railway=rail because they belongs to the same railway with the >> same >> standard. > > If the metro-only sections have a wide structure gauge which would > permit long distance and freight trains to use it (tunnels wide instead > of narrow), they should be tagged railway=rail. But if the tracks can > only be used by metro trains, they should be tagged railway=subway. > > Metro tunnels are usually more narrow than tunnels for full sized > passenger trains because building wide tunnels is more expensive. > >> Normally I consider the nature of the train running on the railway to get >> the >> appropriate railway=* value. >> >> - Railway with long distance and commuter trains: railway=rail >> - Railway with metro services only: railway=subway > > railway=subway are usually encapsulated systems which may have a > connecting track if new vehicles are delivered and both systems have the > same gauge. railway=subway systems don't have level crossings. > > Finally, you cannot write a fix rules which is suitable for every > country and every city. In some cases you have to make exceptions from > the fixed rules. I think that metro-only tracks in Hong Kong should be > tagged as railway=subway even if they are connected to full-sized > railway tracks. > > You can use route=subway for the route relations to indicate that it is > a metro-like service with metro-like vehicles. > >> - Railway with street intersection: railway=light_rail >> - Railway mainly with tracks embedded on the street: railway=tram > > +1 > >>> One of the standard gauge lines (Ma On Shan Line: short distance between >>> stations and low speed) was always tagged with railway=subway, but some >>> time ago I retagged the West Rail Line (commuter rail with long distance >>> between stations) with railway=subway, as well as the sections of the >>> East Rail Line without intercity train service (without asking anyone). >>> Should the lines be retagged as railway=rail, since they're not really >>> subway/metro lines? >> >> For Ma On Shan Line and West Rail Line, there is a bit ambiguity. The trains >> running on them are full sized passenger trains in the standard gauge, but >> they are metro trains in all aspects, even all the technical standards are >> comparable to main line standards. In fact, West Rail Line was planned to >> have >> long-distance trains and freight trains at the beginning, if this were to >> become true, it would be re-tagged as railway=rail. However, the plan was >> dropped and in the forseeable future only metro services would be run on >> West >> Rail Line so I prefer railway=subway in this case. Ma On Shan Line is >> designed >> to have only metro service so it is definitely railway=subway, but because >> it >> will be connected with West Rail Line so it was built to same full size >> technical standard. > > If the infrastructure can be used by full sized passenger trains, it's > always railway=rail. It's not that strange that light rail services use > railway=rail tracks. Have a look at the light rail line from Karlsruhe > to Hochstetten. It uses railway tracks which are also used by freight > trains between Welschneureuter Straße and Leopoldshafen Frankfurter > Straße (freight trains go to KIT Campus Nord, formerly Karlsruhe > Research Centre). > http://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=&lat=49.076789590142965&lon=8.403253555297852&zoom=13&style=standard > >> Even the situation of East Rail Line is not completely clear. In 1983, East >> Rail Line was a relatively infrequent (20-minute headway in outer suburbs) >> commuter rail service using British national railway standard, comparable to >> S-Bahns in Germany. > > S-Bahns in Germany (those operated by DB) are tagged as railway=rail [1] > because most of them share the tracks with all other types of trains > (freight, regional, high-speed). S-Bahns are normal trains and therefore > their route relations are tagged with route=train. (Normal train tickets > are valid in S-Bahns but not on metros (U-Bahn), trams and light rails > (Stadtbahn)) > > In Germany, the law helps you to distinguish the different types of > railways. A law called EBO rules the operation on full-sized railway > lines with standard gauge, another law called BOStrab rules everything > else (trams, light rails not running on EBO tracks, subways). Locations > where a vehicle enters a section ruled by the other law are signed. > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Systemwechsel_Stadtbahn_Karlsruhe.jpg > > I don't know if there are different laws in Hong Kong for full-sized > trains and subways. > >> If OpenStreetMap existed at that time, the train service >> itself would be tagged as route=train. However, the frequency became metro >> standard in early 1990s, the trains renewed to metro standard between 1996 >> to >> 2000, and joined the metro network in 2007, so it is tagged as route=subway >> now. > > That's right. > >> In fact, the boundary between railway=rail, subway, and light_rail is not >> always clear. There exist some trains in elsewhere in the world which can >> run >> on mail line railways (railway=rail), inside metro network (railway=subway), >> and even on the road waiting red lights with motor vehicles >> (railway=light_rail). > > You are speaking of Germany? Cologne and Bonn share some light rail > lines which use railway tracks (used by freight trains, too) outside the > cities and light rail tracks (sometimes underground but still a light > rail, often called "subway"/"U-Bahn") inside the cities. > > Best regards > > Michael > (one of the guys behind OpenRailwayMap) > > > > PS Public Transport is difficult. If you think you know everything, you > have not seen all of the world. > > [1] except in Berlin and Hamburg where the mappers need to be convinced :-) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
