On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Georg Feddern <o...@bavarianmallet.de> wrote:
> Am 26.08.2016 um 14:18 schrieb Kieron Thwaites: > >> I can, however, see the rationale behind tagging "none;slight_right", >> as well as tagging nothing at all, and as such, I think that this is >> an issue that we need to find consensus on. That said, I believe Paul >> is quite correct with his statement that machines "need to be told >> about these restrictions in order for them to be able to provide >> useful feedback from it" -- something that isn't explicitly present >> (or maybe not even implicitly so) but appears obvious to a human on >> the ground isn't necessary obvious to a machine. >> > > Please do not take it personally - I just toke your answer to hook on, > because you agreed on "machines need to be told about these restrictions". > No problem, I'm willing to take it at face value for clarifying my position. > May be I am a bit on the devils advocates side here ... ;) > > 1. Where are there any restrictions? There is no solid line between the 3 > lanes. ;) > Right, but we're not talking about change:lanes=* here. > 2. If you want to give the machine any advice, you should take > "through|through|through;slight_right" > because > 3. "none|none|none;slight_right" does not give any advice for the both > left lines - they still could be considered to take the exit. > In the physical sense and a "no cop no foul" sense, sure, under ideal conditions. In practice, depending on where you're at, it's going to garner some variation or combination of improprer lane change, or not turning from the nearest lane, or cause a collision. We shouldn't be helping Mayhem play GPS in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h0Qvc6_MfQ if we can avoid it, even if it still is the driver's responsibility to not be an idiot (or trust a driverless car to the data without supervision). It's still not helpful or going to gain many new end users or contributing mappers to make it easy for data consumers to give them incorrect information due to incomplete information just because the DOT left out a sign or a pavement arrow. > Well in reality that is the legal situation here - you just have to take > care for the traffic on the lines. > At the risk of being moderately offensive with the stereotypes, this does remind me of a Family Guy bit about driving... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLuaPZWkvZ0 But in this common case (standard single lane exit) I still do not see any > necessarity for any advice to the maschine (or the driver), that if the > route takes the right road one should use the rightmost lane ... > Same situation with solid lines definitely need case 2 - because even you > should 'implicitly know' to take the rightmost lane there is another point > where you already _have_ _to_ be on the rightmost lane - the maschine needs > this advice to announce it appropriate. > > But may be I am a bit too old and have driven too long with my own eyes > and head - and without a navigation assistant. ;) This isn't about humans driving in familiar territory, it's about facilitating automated driving or providing cues for drivers unfamiliar with the area how to best navigate a new region. Oddly enough, on particularly well lane-mapped areas, I'm actually quite surprised how close Osmand is to lane choices a local with extensive experience with an area would pick. Omitting things or leaving "none" in there generally throws off some oddities (like suggesting a spot where there's two marked left turn lanes, three lanes with no markings and a right turn lane with an arrow that you can turn left from the five leftmost lanes or right from the four rightmost). Rather than expecting data consumers have to have programmatic assumptions for every jurisdiction, imparting this information even if it's not explicitly signed or posted yet only debatable in the most farcical of situations, should be considered ground truth for the purposes of mapping and not just killing potential developers interested in providing lane guidance.
_______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
