I have made clarifications about current tags on proposal page:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Education_2.0#Current_tagging_system
Since education=* tags just duplicate amenity=school, college etc, they
fit proposal well. Subtags like *education*:students_female
<http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/education%3Astudents_female> has no
description and I just do not understand what they mean: only female
students allowed? or female students allowed as well as male? Is it true
for the whole institution or just for some educational programs? This
proposal does not concerns such undecribed tags so I assume should not
affect them.
This proposal describes *only* educational services and facilities,
research services and institutions is huge topic and thus should have
their own proposal. As well daycares are not educational institutions
and that's why they are not in the proposal.
Also keep in mind that institution could possibly provide not only
educational services. For example massage parlor could teach masseurs,
but they main service is still massage. Because of that some tag without
"education:*" could be mistaken to apply to other services: education of
masseurs could be for people above 18, but massage services are for
people of any age.
If there is no country standards but only Federal Land (for Germany)
standards, its is possible to insert Land ISO code instead of countries.
But I am sure that is the matter of discussion of German community.
Situation similar to boundary=protected_area, every community should
decide which set of tags in the proposal appropriate for their country
and in which cases should be used.
There is age discrimination in education. Some schools (especially music
ones) do not allow children above or below certain age. It is unfair,
but imho people should know that there is age restrictions in such
educational facility. Age categories taken from Healthcare 2.0 proposal,
maybe they do not fit. I will consider it.
I also agree about boarding and fulltime extended, I'll add this in the
proposal.
I think mailing list could be not really suitable for such lengthy
discussions. I invite you to discuss details on the discussion page, if
you wish:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Education_2.0
13.04.2016 12:44, Martin Koppenhoefer пишет:
I think this proposal is quite elaborate and could be useful (with
some modifications) as a kind of summary page to find useful tags for
a particular school to be tagged as. It also contains useful concepts
how additional detail could be added in a formalized way. But I don't
think this is something that should get "approved" and then the whole
tagging system that already is established, would be changed
accordingly and hundreds of thousands of objects would get retagged – no.
education=* is currently tagged on 1000 objects. Did you check whether
these confirm with this proposal?
http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/education#values
There are also quite some education-namespace-subkeys in use, that are
not yet in the education 2.0 proposal. Will these be integrated?
http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=education
This is quite a long list of tags.
I'll comment on some tags where I believe comments are most useful:
education <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:education>=kindergarten
education <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:education>=school
education <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:education>=college
education <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:education>=university
these appear to be all duplicates of amenity=... In your reasoning you
write that the advantage of moving these to a new key is avoiding to
keep a list of education related features in the amenity tags, but 'd
rather keep this list than retagging all those objects and change all
those data consumers.
I also believe that these are too few classes to differentiate the
type of institutions that occur (or you put them all under "school"
and shift the problem one level up). E.g. professional schools (in
German: Berufsbildende Schulen, further distinguished in Berufsschule
and Berufsfachschule, see here in German:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berufsbildende_Schule ), Fachhochschulen
(Wikipedia:en calls them vocational universities:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocational_university ) and likely more.
What about research institutes? Not sure if they do educate, but I
guess some might be considered also educational.
Also on the lower end, there are some differentiations that I miss in
your scheme, e.g. daycare for children under the age of 3 (maybe not
educational?), daycare for children after the kindergarten or school
closes, ...
Further differentiation of schools (primary education, secondary
education, different types of them). There are quite a lot of
different particularities of schools if you look at the details (that
are indeed interesting for who wants to select a school), and those
are mostly country specific (or even sub-country specific, like in the
case of Germany).
There are quite some amenity=childcare (5k+) in use right now, but the
proposal doesn't mention it:
http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=amenity%3Dchildcare
There are also 191 amenity=preschool in use:
http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=amenity%3Dpreschool
education <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:education>=subdivision
there are also these keys in use:
http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/faculty#overview
http://taginfo.osm.org/keys/institute
education_for:*ages*
Have a look at the introduced tags min_age and max_age that are dealt
with here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dkindergarten
education_fee=*
Why should we prepend the "education_" part to the well introduced key
"fee" (also suggested on the kindergarten page linked above)? Are
there different fees we would potentially want to tag for educational
features?
education_system:de_standard=yes
This is not working, because a country code is not sufficient in
Germany: there is no "German" standard, every Land has it's own
standard, as education is the task of the Länder.
education_for:*child* children (4-11 years) education_for:*adolescent*
adolescents (12-19 years) education_for:*adult* adults (20 years and
above) education_for:*senior* senior (60 years and above)
education_for:*boy* boys (males below 20) education_for:*girl* girls
(females below 20) education_for:*man* adult men (above 20)
education_for:*woman* adult women (above 20)
I don't think we should create age groups like this. These will always
be completely arbitrary and depend on countryspecific legislation and
will not fit well in a tagging scheme intended to map the whole world.
E.g. adults starting at the age of 20 is not something that sounds
familiar to me, generally there are different relevant ages that
determine this step, e.g. age of majority, voting age, legal drinking
age, marriageable age, age of consent, ...
Have a look here where the age of majority is set in different
countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority#Countries_and_subdivisions
(note that the majority seems to set it at 18, although I didn't sum
the populations up). I believe the min_age and max_age concept offers
much more flexibility.
Similar considerations are valid for the other age group tags.
There is also an inherent problem leaving a gap for the age of 20
(adults are defined as 20+ while men and women are defined as 21+ and
boys and girls are defined as 0-19).
"boarding=yes" for boarding schools
You prepended "education_" to almost every tag, but you didn't do it
here, where it would be quite useful, as "boarding" does require
context to understand the meaning, and there is the risk that the same
tag might be used in different context as well. You can also see this
from the (few) already used tags: http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=boarding
single_gender_education
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:single_gender_education&action=edit&redlink=1>=yes.
according to spelling rules this should likely be
"single-gender_education"
education_form:fulltime / parttime
If you look at a specific place, e.g. Berlin, you will see that there
are more classes in use:
- halbtags (half a day, 4-5 hours/day)
- teilzeit (parttime, 5-7 hours/day)
- ganztags (fulltime, 7-9hours/day)
- ganztags erweitert (fulltime extended, more than 9 hours/day)
Reference (see page 2, 1.5):
https://www.berlin.de/ba-mitte/politik-und-verwaltung/aemter/jugendamt/kindertagesbetreuung/kita-und-hortanmeldungen/2013_kitaantrag_mit_einkommenserklaerung.pdf
The scheme should be extended to cater at least for these additional
classes (or changed to be more flexible, e.g. indicate the number of
hours).
Please excuse the brevity of my review but I don't have more time for
this at the moment ;-)
Cheers,
Martin
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