Keeping up with you: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AMap_Features%3Asurface&diff=1000695&oldid=1000659
It seems science defines "soil" more broadly, we sure can expect people to choose based on common (not scientific) usage. From Wikipedia: "[Soil] is a natural body that exists as part of the pedosphere. (...) [It] is considered the "skin of the earth" with interfaces between the lithosphere, hydrosphere, atmosphere, and biosphere. (...) Soil is commonly referred to as "earth" or "dirt"; technically, the term "dirt" should be restricted to displaced soil." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:39 PM, johnw <jo...@mac.com> wrote: > +1 for dirt. There is a distinct difference between a dirt and gravel roads, > as well as sand. > > In the US, dirt roads - especially fire and forestry roads - are maintained > for private and emergency access. Most of these roads are maintained by > grading, but are not surfaced with gravel in any way. > The ground may technically be a mixture of naturally occurring rocks and > clay, dirt and decomposed granite. but If you asked people to name it, would > be called dirt. > > "Dirt road" is also a colloquial definition for these types of roads, so > maybe I'm biased. "soil road" sounds bizarre, and ground road is just plain > bad English. But all the other roads (gravel, cobblestone, asphalt, concrete, > paved, etc) sound normal. > > Dirt turns into mud with rain, so unless you are talking about a road through > a marsh, one would expect a dirt road to be somewhat muddy when it rains. > > because of the lack of rain, there are thousands and thousands of true dirt > roads in drier climates. > Wetter climates often gravel the road until it sinks into the mud and they > add more - a gravel road. > > > A true "mud" road would have to be mud most of the year, regardless of > weather. sounds like a grade 5 track too. > > "roads" in the desert are often in wadis, so they are truly sand roads. > > There are gravel roads. and there are certainly sand roads. but there are > also a lot of dirt roads as well. > > - Ground is something you walk over, dig unto, or fly over = the surface. > Moles live underground, not underdirt or undersoil. > > - Soil is what you put in pots for planting flowers - prepared mixture of > dirt, fertilizer, and ingredients for gardening/farming use = AKA "Potting > soil" - not "potting dirt" or "potting ground" > > > On Mar 14, 2014, at 4:57 AM, Fernando Trebien <fernando.treb...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> So: >> - "earth" is a close synonym of "soil" (though it's not exactly the same >> thing) >> - "ground" could refer to: soil/earth (no vegetation), soil/earth + >> vegetation (say, grass) >> - "dirt" could refer to: soil/earth, clay, sand, arguably gravel (it >> may not be correct but it may be a good idea to clarify this in the >> wiki) >> >> So earth, grass, clay, sand, and gravel, are much more specific than >> ground and dirt, both of which are just slightly more specific than >> unpaved. >> >> Could "dirt" involve "mud"? >> >> Could "ground" involve "rock"? (Similar, but likely flatter, than >> this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/bare_rock) >> >> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Murry McEntire >> <murry.mcent...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Fernando Trebien >>> <fernando.treb...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> It seems that: >>>> - if a surface can be grass or paved, asphalt, concrete, >>>> paving_stones, etc., then it seems the only reason to state "the >>>> surface consists of ground" is if it's unpaved and without vegetation, >>>> right? >>>> - the American usage of "dirt" (as in "your car will get dirty") is a >>>> broad description for 3 more specific values: earth, gravel and >>>> compacted (different from loose gravel or soil) >>>> >>> >>> Ground has multiple meanings some of which are very broad. When speaking of >>> "I walk the ground", "breaking ground" (as in construction or farming), >>> "above ground", or "below ground"; it would seem to fit the Oxford >>> definition of: the solid surface of the earth (world). The dictionary also >>> gives a definition of ground as a generic term to be qualified, such as >>> "marshy ground". (And to muddle things, when you think it might mean a >>> natural surface - the Oxford gives the (British) definition of "the floor of >>> a room".) >>> >>> Upon seeing surface=ground for a road, my first reaction is to wonder what >>> is meant by that? Upon pondering, it is a land surface of the world that is >>> not raised or improved but may be worn and could be almost any natural >>> surface which may include ruts through vegetation. >>> >>> Of course I could ponder more and give another dozen definitions; many >>> conflicting. >>> "Ground" is a poor term because it has so many similar, but still different >>> meanings (very ambiguous) when used to describe a surface; with its most >>> common meaning being very general and not describing the material of the >>> surface. >>> >>> As to American usage of "dirt", the example is poor -- if you stick with the >>> noun, not the related adjective, saying "your pants have dirt on them" would >>> likely be interpreted as loam, clay, soil, or the like; not gravel. To me, a >>> "dirt road" is most often a natural soil (clay, loam, sand, etc.). It may be >>> compacted or graded. I would refer to a road surfaced with gravel as a >>> "gravel road". >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Fernando Trebien >> +55 (51) 9962-5409 >> >> "The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months." (Moore's law) >> "The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates' law) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Fernando Trebien +55 (51) 9962-5409 "The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months." (Moore's law) "The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates' law) _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
