On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 1:45 PM Qijia Liu <[email protected]> wrote: > > 1. As I said, I'll keep code derived from SymPy Gamma BSD licensed. To be > more specific, all python code under logic directory, factordiagram.js, > plot.js (and CSS, if anyone cares). So there will be no barrier for moving > code bidirectionally. For Pyodide and new UI part, since no one in SymPy core > team has knowledge/time/willingness to maintain, I don't see benefits to keep > them BSD. Moreover, most part of the current SymPy Gamma is 9 years old. > Could an unmaintained project be hurt by being forked and re-licensed? > > Please notice, SymPy is a library, while SymPy Gamma is a service for end > user. I respect John Hunter as matplotlib author. Matplotlib is also a > library, thus being BSD-style do benefit it as he said. However, an end user > application can only be reused/redistributed as another application, and a > service can only be reused/redeployed as a service. Once being permissive, > there is far less interest/necessity for re-users to contribute back an > application/service than a library. So to protect the project, keeping the > core permissive but application/service viral is very common in open source > community. That's what I believe. > > Making it AGPL is very different from what the companies I accuse did, > because AGPL is an OSI-approved Free and Open Source license. The reason that > it prevents anybody to use it, is their prejudice towards (A)GPL or their > compromise to proprietary software vendors. It's not AGPL's fault.
Prejudice or not, the fact remains that we cannot use code unless it is licensed at least as permissively as SymPy. > > Even though SymPy Gamma can be self-deployed, SymPy team still pay to deploy > it. We all know the importance of having an available service for users to > directly use. The new project still needs a server for hosting static files, > including compiled packages. As long as there's need for that, AGPL is a > better fit than GPL. Maybe I misunderstood the technical aspects of pyiodide. I was under the impression that the whole thing could just be put on GitHub pages, which costs us nothing. I understand you have to compile wasm versions of SymPy and any other Python packages, but I don't think this needs to be done very often. Just doing it once per SymPy release (typically a few times a year) should be fine. There might also be free CDNs that will host Python WASM packages, I'm not sure. But it's possible I am missing something here, so if I am please let me know. If we still have to pay for hosting with pyiodide, that gives me pause. Even if it's much less than what we are paying now, having to deal with a server and server costs is a lot of complexity that I'd like to eliminate entirely. > > 2. I don't care that much about server side data collection, or the > proprietary server platform itself, or Google the company. I myself would > like to host the project on vercel. I just don't like the way that browser > fetches the Google Analytics and run it on client. I simply want to gain > control of what code runs on my device, whenever I could. Like I said. I don't think we even use the analytics on Gamma, so I personally have no problems with removing them, even now independently of all the other things discussed here. OTOH, since we do have analytics there, maybe they can be used to help us understand why it is costing us so much. I've had a hard time figuring out how to extract this information from the Google Cloud console. If someone knows how to do this, let me know. > > 3. Though contributing to SymPy, I personally prefer the No Code of Conduct > that diofant chooses. That was one of the reason Sergey B Kirpichev started > the fork. It is for me too. > > I saw some people outside SymPy team that interested in migrating to Pyodide > at issue 83 of sympy live. That was also the place I got the idea and decided > to work on this. Hopefully they are not so busy as I am (I'm working from 9am > to 8pm 5 days). And, thanks for your initial answer. I'll keep working and > release it soon. I also don't want people pass this conversation by, think > "hey you say so much words against the community's philosophy, but where is > your code?" for too long. Yes, we want to move Live to pyiodide too. But Gamma is actually a higher priority because it is currently costing us twice as much as Live. Aaron Meurer > > Qijia Liu > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sympy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sympy/d7ed5d30-de51-43f8-805c-fcea5b632b49n%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sympy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sympy/CAKgW%3D6KDfduH%3DX8TUL%3DH4KMdHNbSCM%2B4h8hDXUTpGW3trW0sWg%40mail.gmail.com.
